To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

Not at all. Said in the right way, it's humorous. Unless you haven't got the brains to realise that.

Not at all. Said in the right way, it's humorous. Unless you haven't got the brains to realise that.

Yep, most of the answers on this thread are like if you insist that all speech is 100% literal.
Is it an IQ thing?

I agree with this.

Why do so many people on here have no sense of humour?

She was being jokey.

What is wrong with "do you want to die"?

"I'll have your guts for garters."
"Hope you've written your will."
"Enjoy hospital food, do you?"
"I'll give you a thick ear."
"By rights you should be stuck up a chimney."

All jocular threats I grew up hearing. I managed not to assault my parents.

It is a life experience thing.

Some of us have lived with domestic abuse, so are familiar with the pure physical reaction we still get to even 'jokey' threats.

Utterly ridiculous and thoroughly misogynistic post. The comment came after she explained about wet washing, it’s not a leap to figure out what she meant by it and that it was a joke. That it didn’t land well absolutely does not excuse son’s behaviour. And ‘say that again’ and ‘bitch’ followed by squaring up and chest bumping isn’t ’fight or flight’ behaviour. It’s aggressive and if it’s not nipped in the bud it will escalate. Maybe sending him to his dad’s wasn’t the best idea, but they clearly have contact or OP wouldn’t have been able to do that, and if she felt threatened getting him out of the house was clearly the priority.

Ever heard of child abuse in the context of physical neglect?

OP, it doesn’t matter what you said. Yes, it was a silly comment to make, but it was a joke. Of course you weren’t threatening him and when he calms down, he’ll admit that he knows that. To himself, if not to you or his dad.

None of these posters would think it was reasonable or acceptable if their husbands or brothers or any other men in their lives squared up to them and screamed in their face that they were a bitch in an argument, let alone over a silly, jokey comment. And it makes zero difference whether they’re grown men and he’s a hormonal teenager. He’s 16. That’s old enough to know that men shouldn’t be hitting women.

Sending him off to his dads probably wasn’t the most sensible idea. The man is a violent abuser. These men don’t change, as evidenced by his subsequent messages to you. He thought it was perfectly acceptable to physically harm you if he wanted to, so of course he’ll think it’s perfectly reasonable that his son would do the same.

I think I would give it a day for everyone to calm down. Then maybe text your son with something like ‘I love you very much and the door is open whenever you want to come home. I’d like to have a proper talk about it, just the two of us, so we can both understand why the other reacted the way they did. I made a silly comment and it didn’t occur to me that you’d take that seriously and for that, I apologise. But I need to be very clear that I can’t accept being frightened or physically threatened by my son in our home. That’s non negotiable. Older brother is out on Wednesday. Why don’t you come over for tea and we can have a chat and sort this all out? Love mum’. Then bribe older son to go to his mates or something.

If he’s had his dad in his ear telling him that he did the right thing, then he’s probably going to feel quite justified and that you were in the wrong right from the start. And if that’s the case, you might need to let his older brother have a chat with him and explain that violence towards women isn’t acceptable. I’m not suggesting that you ask him to do that, or that you use him as a go between, because that would be wrong, but he’s likely to do it off his own back. It might be that a spell at his dad’s would be the right thing. You think he’s changed, but none of us know what goes on behind closed doors. Perhaps witnessing some of his dad’s behaviour might be enough to make him realise that he doesn’t want to be like that.

This.

This, wonder if the sons response to his dm going on about him not taking the clothes out had been " leave it mum, do you want to die if you tell me again?'

Since when was a chest butting and using male physical advantage to intimidate your own mother 'being a teenager'? The OPs son is almost in his adulthood, and has been raised in a home with a male abuser. He has had a role model through his formative years that has taught him the abuse of women is acceptable, and who will no doubt be dripping the same message into his ear now. This is a serious emerging problem for the OP and potentially for future women in her sons life and shouldn't be treated as 'normal' or blamed on the OP.

How exactly was that in any way misogynistic? The kids behaviour was wrong, however where did "she explained about wet washing" come from? Or are we making things up to support people now.

Think this situation is starting to get the gaslighters out in force - nothing like people inventing things to support their position.

As I read from OP, she was sarcastic, kid didn't understand and overreacted. What did you read?

Some of the posts on this thread are a masterclass in understanding how and why the aggression of young men towards women is off the scale.

What OP said was a joke. Maybe not a good one but clearly not a threat.

Her son had been acting like a brat to that point. He then moved to puffing up and butting her in the chest. And screaming bitch at her.

That’s not a poor delicate icckle boy who’s so traumatised he immediately has to defend himself from big scary bad mummy. It’s an angry, violent little shit trying his abuse on for size and getting rightful consequences. It’s now even the first time he’s done it.

Some of you should try enacting consequences with your sons who are out in the world acting like this and worse because mummy dearest will condone them being violent to women because they are innocent little victims rather than parenting them.

But you said “do you want to die?” Don’t condone his behaviour at all but why would you say that over a teen checking a dryer?

Because it was a daft joke.

Even the daftest of kids would know that. Mine were as daft as a brush and I'll say you'll be dead by the morning if you carry on, and other such things. The most I'd get from my moody adolescent teens was 'There, you go again mum!!!' And a massive eye roll.

For a kid to square up to his mum is some serious shit. It is either learned behaviour, and we know the father was abusive or he has something going on that is making him angry to flare up so quickly.

Squaring up to your mum, whatever she's said, is not understandable behaviour. OP's question was obviously a fairly typical joke that people are pretending not to be familiar with - I'm autistic and even I can see that. You don't get to threaten violence (to your MUM FFS) for not liking a joke.

This.

I agree.

What you said was absolutely fine and normal. As if he thought you were actually threatening him, it’s ridiculous.

But it's not about how people on this thread take it that we are talking about, it's how the op's son took it. And as several of us have explained, teens are not always best at interpreting that kind of tone, or teenage boys (or those with abusive fathers) may well have people around them who genuinely threaten them, eg boys at school trying to be the alpha, confusing the issue further.

Also I think OPs phrasing was a little unusual..not blaming her for that but I've never heard someone say 'do you want to die' jokingly, whereas I have heard 'do you have a death wish' or 'not if you value your life' or similar. Obviously the meaning is no different but the tone might be more recognisable.

I didn’t really follow the unnecessary laundry details, but you weren’t being unreasonable AT ALL for wanting your son out of the house. And I don’t blame you for getting your ex involved; you gave him the benefit of the doubt because you thought he’d changed.
You must feel incredibly betrayed 💐

I’ve had things thrown back at me to make them sound polar opposite meaning wise- it seems nuts your son heard what he did but he must have s as md he must have been convinced and convincing with your ex. Screaming bitch in your face and squaring up is horrific but the fact he walked out with a cheery ‘bye’ is a bit worse as he didn’t see his behaviour as a bad thing. Saying that throwing a 16yo out is a huge thing. I think you all need to have a big talk. Hope it all gets figured out op

I wouldn't waste your time with that sort of person. I see it as trollin. People determined to only ever see their side of things and insult people who don't.

Selfish, unempathic people often use sarcasm and other passive aggressive behaviour to veil their intentions. And they either enjoy riling others or they enjoy dismissing them as idiots - either way unless someone totally agrees with everything they say their stupid.

The irony in the fact that sarcasm is often used by verbal/emotional abusers in their inconsistent behaviour. Also by saying it's sarcasm gives them an excuse should they be called out on it.

You’re not wrong for feeling upset and threatened but I don’t understand why you packed him off to his dad of all people if your ex has a history of dv. And then asking him to talk to your teenager about not being abusive in the home.

Oh my god, what she said isn't strange or odd, she was joking around with him when she was exasperated. Stop. He has overreacted and your ex is a dickhead. Abuse or not, it's a normal reaction to try to involve the other parent when a kid is playing up, and this goes beyond 'playing up'. Ultimately you're right not to want violence in your home. I hope you manage to resolve it but unfortunately your ex is fuelling your son.

what your son did was not ok - but you sound very threatening yourself so perhaps there is a back story. Do you want to die or do you have a death wish does not make any sense in the context of clothes in a dryer. Just how this has escalated is unbelievable.