To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

No comment at all, poorly phrased joke or no, makes it ok for a sixteen year old (so mostly physically mature) to square up, fists clenched and chest bump someone while screaming in their face. Nothing.

No woman that has suffered DV should have to stand being physically intimidated in her home either. He wasn’t feeling threatened ffs, he was embarrassed, angry, and reacted defensively. He was pissed off before the comment and escalated it after.

He’d messed up the wash, got defensive and blamed Op immediately rather than accepting he’d done something wrong. Despite it having been explained to him why it’s important to get the clothes to dry in the dryer properly (yes they will stick of taken out to dry on a clothes horse if they’ve been sitting there), he tries to open the door 5 mins later. She goes to sort out the washing and makes a poorly phrased joke out of exasperation at him not listening to her, and he physically lashes out and screams in her face. He absolutely was using anger and physical intimidation to put her in her place, and at 16 is old enough to do serious harm to Op.

Something else is clearly going on because it is such an extreme reaction. If that had been a partner, no one would be jumping to defend him, or saying that Op deserved it because of a turn of phrase he possibly took literally when it quite clearly wasn’t intended to be (or just maybe he’s grabbing onto anything he can to DARVO his way out of it, just like abusive men tend to do). Op wasn’t an aggressor at all, and given her ex seems to think physical violence and intimidation is an acceptable way to control people in your life and that words mean you deserve that treatment, it’s bloody obvious where he’s picked it up, and it isn’t Op.

That’s not a poor delicate icckle boy who’s so traumatised he immediately has to defend himself from big scary bad mummy. It’s an angry, violent little shit trying his abuse on for size and getting rightful consequences. It’s now even the first time he’s done it

You think sending a disregulated aggression adolescent male to a violently abusive adult Father is rightful consequences? Dear God!

And where do you think his ‘aggressive violent little shit ness came from? You appear to be arguing it’s not a result of anything he has experienced, so it’s just innately who he is. In which case nothing can be done about it.

Whereas if he has been, like all of us, formed in good part by his experiences, then that explains his reaction and means there is a constructive path open to helping to more constructively reshape him. Which can not happen by sending him off to live with his abusive Dad.

This is a really relevant post OP, weighing in from a social work and therapist perspective.

Parents make mistakes, children make mistakes.

His behaviour was undoubtedly WRONG , however he’s a teenage boy who needed a way to not lose face.
So hard to do this in the moment but 3 R’s - Regulate Relate Reason in that order.
You will have both been triggered- you by his aggression and for whatever reason, he by your comment (who knows, maybe dad used to say this to him and it’s landed badly or maybe something has happened online or at school).

Ignore your ex who has used the opportunity to try and get son on side to his behaviour. Give him a day, and try get in touch. Maybe get older brother to explain about violence and aggression etc.

Honestly. You pushed his buttons by saying "do you want to die?". He has lived with abuse as a role model and you did nothing by saying that but reinforce shitty behaviour. Of course he shouldn't square up to you ..but sending him to his room would have been a better option than calling his dad, reinforcing that noone cares about him
Added to the fact that teenagers are generally horrible.
He made an error with the washing when the thought he was doing the right thing and you made his feel stupid.

The dads behaviour is a different thing, but you send him there knowing he's abusive and now he is justifying your son's actions. How confusing for your son .

My advice is. Call your son , tell him you want to talk to him.

Say you shouldn't have reacted in that way but intimidating you the way he did is unacceptable , but you understand how your words and actions upset him, and you are very sorry for that.
Take it from there

So many posts telling a woman and mother to essentially walk on eggshells when she's making a joke. Fuck off with it. I dare say she had enough of that with her ex.

Also re this being the behaviour of a boy who has himself experienced DV/DA…this may well be the case. Unfortunately, he’s not far off adulthood and without some learning about how his triggers are not his fault but they ARE his responsibility , he is potentially going to fall foul of real life.
Cant excuse this sort of behaviour, and whilst in social work/therapy we’d be educating parents on the root causes and function of the behaviour/supporting regulation, we would absolutely be addressing this behaviour with the young person as well!

It's just such a dramatic household on exhausted reading this. The amount of teenagers you read on here that live in slums and their parents not only.enable it but aren't allowed in their bedrooms.And they leave dirty crockery all over the place with filthy clothes...

You have a 16-year-old who's clearly got some sense of responsibility as he brings down two bags of washing to do it himself. He stuffs up a bit with a dryer, but that's only because his other brother came back and started messing around with his washing, or he forgot to do the cycle correctly.

His mother makes a weak attempt to the death threat joke for his lack of use of the drier correctly and then throws him out the house when he told her to fuck off.

Is the household always this bloody dramatic

I do agree though, he will be better off back with you in the long term, with clear rules about future aggression. Perhaps he needs to understand that you are within your rights to call the Police if he is being physically aggressive to you in the future. It may not be pleasant for people to hear but often it is a serious wake up call to young men who think being abusive to their parents is okay and justified. It’s something that is often discussed with the YP we work with, re boundaries and expectations about home behaviour.

You and your sons have experienced abuse. You need to choose your words more carefully. Saying do you want to die is not nice for anyone to hear, let alone someone who’s experienced abuse. He may have genuinely feared that before as a child

Sounds like victim blaming to me.
The op said something that 'wasnt nice' (i'm calling bullshit, it was a light hearted ) so the answer is to puff his chest out, square up and call her a bitch?

So she has to watch every single thing she says so as not to provoke him. Sounds like walking on egg shells in her own home not to upset an abuser.

Context and tone of voice is everything.
The lad is old enough to understand a joke.
Is he going to react violently to everything he sees as a threat, even when there is non there? Is he going to threaten people outside the home because 'he doesn't like what they’ve said'

Even if son didn't take it as a joke the reaction was a threat and never gave op the opportunity to explain what she meant.

I know when Ive had a joke backfire on me , my kids have said ' Did you really mean......? Or ' i can't believe youve just said..........' and I said, no, what i meant was.... and explain what I was trying to say.
In this family the boy is very quick to anger and threaten.

* You need to choose your words more carefully*

That's actually quite chilling. Choose your words more carefully, woman, or it will be your fault that this bigger, stronger male in your home threatens or assaults you.

Why are you giving parenting advice about teenager when you think they are ‘generally horrible’? Maybe yours are horrible because you aren’t good at it.

I notice you missed out the part where the son said that his mother was to blame as she is responsible for the dryer. What excuse will you conjure up for that I wonder?

Whose choice was this?

This. And what “shirts and skirts” said.

Id get him home or meet somewhere neutral in public if you’re scared of him. I don’t think he will kickoff again though, it was in the moment.

All the time he is there dad is twisting him against you in a power game because dad likes the power and is probably a misogynistic bully. You want him away from that.

Id apologise first and explain you meant “do you have a death wish as your brother will kill you ha ha”.
Explain what went wrong with the washing and supervise next time in a helpful not know it all way so he gets it right. Tell him you love him but you felt threatened and that should never happen between a man and a woman at home and that you expect him to not jump from being pissed off to name calling and violence and ask if some help managing that would be helpful and youre happy to attend too if he would like.

And this is why we have so many agressive young men, because of awful parenting as suggested here. She should apologise for 'startling' him after he squared up to her and shouted bitch in her face? Do you really think that's how women should responded to male aggression?

The problem here is that OP’s son reacted with aggression. He could just as easily have asked his mother what she meant by the comment - a comment made in response to him taking clothes out of the drier five minutes after she had told him to leave them in to dry. Not hard to link the sarcasm, but also not hard to see that it may have been lost on a 16 year old. But that doesn’t give him the right to react the way he did and the number of posters trying to excuse it at OP’s expense is shocking.

In the rush to blame OP most posters are not picking up on the fact that he made an aggressive and misogynistic remark about the drier being OP’s responsibility. Also missed is the fact that OP says this is not the first time he has displayed this behaviour.

He’s displaying a misogynistic attitude and aggression towards women. These are the kids who grow up to be wife beaters if it’s not nipped in the bud - not to mention the immediate threat he poses to OP. It’s really concerning that so many posters here don’t see a pattern emerging here and are advocating for OP to actually apologise to him, when it should be other way around.

Maybe sending him to his dad’s wasn’t ideal but they clearly still have contact with him or it wouldn’t have been an option. The priority was getting him up of the house so that he was no longer a threat to OP. Something which the majority of posters would have been advocating had he been a partner or husband. An aggressive 16 year old with so little control over his temper is no less a threat and the suggestion that OP is in some way responsible for that is utterly misogynistic and doesn’t help OP one bit.

You did the best you could in an awful situation. Don’t beat yourself up about that. Unfortunately you have sent your son to the person who taught him to act like that. No doubt your son saw some of the way your ex behaved to you and is unconsciously copying it. Also, it’s highly likely that your ex behaves this way towards his new partner behind closed doors.
If he apologises I’d take him back and try to get some counselling for him.
please report your ex’s abuse- your sons need to know that this kind of behaviour is wrong otherwise they are going to repeat this cycle.

You may have made this much worse by sending him to his dad. Instead of feeling guilty he has likely spent the night having his anger justified and his behaviour minimised. Calling to ask him to come home needs to be handled carefully so he doesn’t view it as further evidence that you were wrong and not him.

Your son knew that at the time. He was already annoyed so chose to "take it seriously". I can imagine exactly how you said it and I'd probably say somthing similar to my own DS.

I'm so sorry he redacted that way and I'm sorry your ex didn't back you up. I honestly don't know what to suggest next either, what a mess x

There is no excuse for shitty behaviour but every single one of us has been shitty and horrible at times and teenagers more so as they are learning how to deal with hormonal rage and how to handle situations. Please be constructive for the op unless you think her son should remain with an abusive man who will teach him all the wrong ways to be a partner

I have to say that although many of you think sarcasm is funny, none of us was there.

In the context of abusive or dysfunctional families sarcasm is often used, as well as aggressive behaviour being inconsistent. You end up, over time, not knowing when you're being threatened and when not. Many of you will have grown up in loving environments - not everyone does. And abuse is often not witnessed, or is excused by other family members. I know that I can never do anything to help those that didn't experience it to understand. With no disrespect, I know they cannot understand something that is so alien to them - like a man trying to understand pregnancy.

Without going into detail, sarcasm whilst found to be amusing to some isn't for others - it can be triggering to those who have experienced it.

If your partner is abusive but you grew up in a loving family, you think about how it's affected you, but may not be aware of how it's affected the children. Not all of them may be affected the same - just like some abusers may especially target one child out of many.

What I'm saying is that whilst sarcasm may be amusing to some, it may not be to everyone.

I'd figure son of OP didn't understand, he didn't respond well, felt threatened, and having no power, stood up to that threat the only way he knew - by making himself threatening (I'm not excusing his behaviour, but neither OP's - nobody is in the right here).

The best solution here, I think, is a one to one discussion, not condescending - not you apologising for his reaction, but gently telling him how you meant what you said, that it wasn't a threat to him, explain to him how the washer/dryer works etc, and if he doesn't, press him for an apology for his behaviour.

Clearly he was angry and didn’t read your humour and got angrier. His dad was abusive. So was my ex and he will do anything he can to try and win over me. The worse thing you did was call his dad. I think you need to start again. It sounds like you were both upset. Teens do swear etc and do not seem to read a room I have found. I think once you have both calmed down see if you can talk properly. In your position the last person I would want my son with is the abusive ex as I wouldn’t want him to be like him. If he can understand your boundaries rules etc let him back in. But he needs to understand there is no chances.

Sorry still not normal.

It’s really concerning that so many posters here don’t see a pattern emerging here and are advocating for OP to actually apologise to him, when it should be other way around.

Unfortunately this is, I suspect, how adult abusers are made. Instead of a society that shows him how unacceptable his behaviour is, he's pandered to and his victim told to apologise. He'll have those same expectations of a partner in a few years.

Agree. The level of misogyny on the thread is shocking - particularly as it comes from other women. The boy made a misogynistic comment about the drier being his mother’s responsibility. OP also advised that this is not the first time he’s displayed this kind of behaviour. There’s a pattern emerging in his attitude towards women and if it’s not addressed it will continue and escalate, and his future partners will eventually be at the receiving end of it. At 16, and with such poor control over his anger he’s no less a threat to the OP than a partner displaying the same aggression would be, and posters would be telling her to throw him out. Such hypocrisy.

NAH, fuck this "boys will be boys" shit. That's exactly how we get to the point of boys and men abusing everyone else.