To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

No I haven’t. Look at all the articles/statistics/data out there .. you’ll see how many parents believe they hid it all from their kids, their kids saw nothing and were not affected. Kids are not blind, deaf or stupid. They see and hear abuse. It really is that simple.

OP has let us know she was abused and instantly became frightened and angered by her son’s actions because they reminded her of her ex husband. That’s PTSD: she is hyper vigilant and her reaction in the present is to go back into a previously necessary teauma response. In her case she became frightened and went into fight mode with her son (aggressively responding and throwing him out). With respect to her ex she exhibited fawning behavior (appealing to him for help, submitting to his supposed authority as a husband) and then when she was alone agsin and far from son/ex husband, she was able to regroup and start remembering how bad he was and start treating him (the ex) less submissively and realize she needed to get her son back.

All of this happened in thr blink of an eye. Trauma triggering is subconscious and instantaneous. Fight/flight is unconscious and instantaneous. You don’t stop and think “there is s tiger” you turn and run without thought.

The reason I say that is its true for the 16 year old as well it can be true for grown men as well. In the moment that any person perceives a life threat they will react by fighting, flying, freezing, or fawning.

This reading that this boy is already lost to (natural? Inevitable?) masculine abuser status is a horrible judgment on OP and her skill as a mother. According to the pisters who think he was unexposed to his father’s violence and abuse its somehow in the blood—but he was raised by OP. She has the obligation and the time to recognize that he too can experience overwhelm and fear. She could have defused the whole situation in the moment but she chose to escalate (through fear) and exile/abandon her son to her worst enemy snd most hated abuser. Her judgment at the time was off because she was in trauma time.

You all are rushing to forgive her and applaud her threats of major force (abusive father and police). I am all about natural consequences but plenty if people are raised with threats of violence and exile/abandonment by their fathers and mothers and grow up to be violent.

OP says she wants to treat her don to manage his triggered fight response—well some if us think that process needed to start in the hime, in the moment, by teaching him how to deescalate rather than by throwing him *to sn abusive, manipulative, scary, authority figure.

Children witness it - nothing can be hidden completely even if they don’t witness the worst of it they witness the aftermath

and @pikkumyy77 is right the response form this was still the aftermath of it all - and even though the OP says the relationship is fine they are parts of the Story even now which indicate they are not and he is still potentially abusive

@Blank1234

but he couldn’t be around Op at that point, it wasn’t safe for her so short of kicking him out on the street where else could he go?

Exile and abandonment? Tone down the hyperbole. Removing a child from specific situations when they are in danger or are causing a danger to others is entirely appropriate behaviour and his father has been actively coparenting him since the split so is clearly very involved in his life. Nowhere does it suggest that Op’s children hate or deeply fear their father. The risk to them is they pick up on his shitty abusive tendencies, not that they will be subject to significant abuse directly themselves, otherwise they wouldn’t be going there.

She didn’t chuck him out indefinitely to a father he doesn’t know that is likely to physically or emotionally abuse him, she removed a threatening presence from her home to the safest place available at the time for a short period, ie his other home. That isn’t exile nor abandonment. Certainly not perfect that the father was the only place but that is because he was never going to teach the right lesson and a place with someone that is not an abuser would obviously have been better. Her son cheerfully went to his other parent’s so on balance it is certainly not a case of the father being a “threat of major force”. The punishment was being removed from her home, not being put into his dad’s. You are seriously projecting if you think that witnessing abuse as a toddler will result in a child terrified of the abuser. Plenty of women deal with the fact their children end up favouring the abusive parent because their demeanour is so different with the children.

Police is also entirely appropriate given that he commited a crime.

He’d have been better off staying at home than being sent to an abusive father to teach him how to behave towards women! Ffs, that’s just insanity. Oh I know, best place to send him is to the very man who was abusive and clearly disregards women completely, yeh he’ll be great to teach my son how to behave in an appropriate manner 🤯🤯🙄🙄

He overreacted, you overreacted and his father overreacted. Sounds like an excellent dynamic.

He threatened violence, OP reacted, his father used the opportunity to abuse OP through the son.

I have news for you, buttercup. Puffing out your chest and even getting angry are not crimes. Talk about hyperbole!

And exile and abandonment are terms of art when talking about types of relationship actions in the family setting.

Buttercup? Behave. He chest bumped her. He didn’t just puff up. Unlawful touching (which that is) is battery, which is, funnily enough, a crime, and that’s before we get into the fact that putting someone in fear of imminent physical violence is assault.

Causing fear and alarm ARE crimes.

OP felt threatened and scared. If it was someone random off the street you'd likely be saying otherwise.

He has to learn it's not acceptable, otherwise he'll do it to someone else and end up with a criminal record - not to mention the emotional damage to whichever woman it is.

Ah, you didn't read the OP's posts properly then. He physically threatened her, chest bumping her and calling her a bitch. The problem is not that he got angry or upset about a comment that was made. It was that he tried to physically intimidate his mother, threatening her with violence, literally using violence, and verbally abusing her.

It sounds like they have had an honest conversation now and have reconciled. OP is right to say that if it happens again, she will call the police. That's a completely fair boundary to have. Hopefully he learns a lot from this experience and they both are able to move on.

Its a fair boundary but she needs to think about how to build deescalation, forgiveness, and reunion into the relationship and into his repertoire. This is all we are saying. It was NOT A CRIME and no one here should be encouraging her to treat him like a lost cause and a criminal.

You can use as many caps as you like, it doesn’t change the fact that what he did was an intentional application of unlawful force (battery) after making Op apprehend the immediate threat of violence (assault). Are the police going to arrest him? No, of course not, and I doubt that is what anyone wants, but just claiming that it was “NOT A CRIME” in caps doesn’t make it so. Can you actually say explain why you think that?

Unlike exile and abandonment, which you suggest are terms of art that apparently apply to sending your child to their other home for a short period, they are terms in law and have a fixed meaning. Frankly, if the discussions he has now had with Op don’t work and he does it again, the police giving him a scare to realise that is actually very serious wouldn’t be the worst thing to counteract his father assuring him his actions are totally fine and justified if someone says something he doesn’t like.

I don't think anyone was saying he's a lost cause? I didn't see any comments like that. It doesn't sound like he is a lost cause at all, but it does sound like he needed to recognise the extreme nature of his behaviour and the potential consequences of his choices, which include police involvement and alienation from loved ones, among other things. OP would not be doing her job as a parent if she acted like this wasn't extremely serious. No one wants to see another young man who feels entitled to push women around and has never been told no.

Did you not read the OP's update? She has facilitated forgiveness and reconciliation, apologised for her part in upsetting him, and welcomed him back into the home and their relationship. It sounds like a good outcome and I hope he has learned a lot from the experience.