To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

OP said in an update that her son was little more than a toddler when she and his dad split up, and he didn’t witness any abuse - nor has his dad been abusive to either child. This came across to me, not as DS not understanding what OP meant, but perceived it as her ‘disrespecting’ him. Which is an entirely different scenario, likely learned from his peers and deeply misogynistic. In which case, OP has a much bigger problem than this simply being something he’s parroting from his dad.

And as far as l can see his attitude to OP on this occasion means he’s just as dangerous as an unexploded landmine. She clearly wants to try to get to the bottom of why he acts like this, but she doesn’t have an obligation to put herself in harms’ way to do that, or to simply absorb the appalling behaviour he mete’s out.

I am with you!
I do not read a threat into it, but a " you could get ill if the clothes are not dry", which is caring!

This is breaking my brain, to be honest. So many people reading a completely different scenario.

Even if my DH tells me he is "killing me" if I take the clothes out of the drier before they dry, I am not going to react like he slapped me across the face or pointed a knive at me!

Nothing OP says should warrant this kind of response. The escalation is entirely on him. And so many posters are missing the fact that OP says her son was a toddler when they split up - he didn’t witness any DV and his father wasn’t abusive towards either child.

OP still experiences herself as being in an abusive relationship with her ex—I don’t see why anyone would think the child has not already suffered and still suffers even if the parents technically split when he was a toddler. ACE score for this child is very high given what OP said.

At any rate: to reiterate of the hard of thinking this is not a court of law and OP is not presenting a case to a judge for a divorce from her child. This is a sick body. The family is hurting and needs medicine and healing. The medical model is more appropriate than the judicial/adversarial model.

Mumsnet likes to choose a villain, a victim, and “rescue” one from the other. But this is just a struggling two person family. No villains snd no victims. Just two people who would like to be able to harmoniously and lovingly be mother snd son but who are struggling to feel safe in the relationship and manage bursting emotions.

Codswallop.

I agree DS shouldnt have escalated, but if you or OP believe because he was a toddler he was unscathed from the violence I disagree.

There's an atmosphere, a fear, anger in a home with DV and toddlers are very attuned to their mothers.

None of that makes it OK but that doesnt change the fact, OP started with "do you want to die" over DS not turning on a dryer properly. I can understand with the history how that escaled and also think you shouldnt say that to your child even if you meant it as a joke

I have a similar but more extreme situation. Son was 19, came home drunk and started squaring up to me and to his younger sister, and considering he is built like a brick shit house it was very very scary. I placated him, and got him into bed. I told my ex (who was abusive which is why I left), and asked him to collect him in the morning, and I told him what happened and said I would like him to have a word. Fully expecting him to read him the riot act of how we aren't aggressive to women, and how he was agressive to both me and his little sister and how that was not at all ok, and he should apologise. I don't know why on earth i expected my abusive ex to do this - I really don't know what I was thinking. Of course, he didn't, claimed Id made a fuss about nothing, accused me of being a psycho and over exaggerating. So I cut him out of it, and just dealt with my son head on. When things were calmer we had a chat, I said it was absolutely terrible behaviour and never ever to be repeated in my home. He got the message.

Moral is don't involve abusive exes. They just make this shit 1000 times worse. x.

The reason OP made the comment wasn’t because DS didn’t turn the machine on properly. It was because he was taking wet clothes out of the drier five minutes after she told him to leave them in until they were dry. ‘Do you want to die?’ As in wearing damp clothes is bad for your health.

Now look at his response. It wasn’t ’what do you mean ?’ Indicating he didn’t understand the comment. It was ‘say that again’. My interpretation was that he perceived OP as disrespecting him, and that was what fuelled the aggressive response. Not something he learned from his dad - more likely from his peers as a result of the ridiculous posturing that goes on these days. That he would take that home to his mother is concerning enough, but when you put it with the deeply misogynistic comment about the drier being her responsibility it’s a waving red flag.

OP hasn’t triggered anything that wasn’t already there and poised to turn into something much more sinister given the chance.

Yes, it is so obviously a joke. I am stunned that people are interpreting that as a genuine threat when the OP clearly loves her son and would never threaten him!

Thank you for your message, it's scarily similar. I won't be involving the ex in future. Not in any way whatsoever.

Has he been in touch yet?

That is the most important bit here indeed, have you spoken to him since?

He is back home now.
He was indeed very upset about my comment. I was very apologetic about having misread his mood, and told him can see now why my comment added to his frustration. But, I also explained that he should have walked off instead when feeling his temper rise and not have intimidated and insulted me like he did. We went back and forth quite a bit with me reiterating how I didn't deserve his response and him initially feeling it was justified.
I made it clear to him that it is my job as his mother to ensure he is brought up correctly which includes teaching him right from wrong regarding how he treats people, because as he grows into a man, if he were to repeat those actions to another woman or a man, they would act differently to how I did and he almost certainly would find himself in a terrible situation, like in prison!
I got him to realise his actions were serious and I told him that I will not be made to feel frightened in my own home, the home I provide for him to feel happy, secure and loved in. And that if it happens again, I will not be packing him off to his dad's (I'll get to that in a min), and that instead I would be calling the police to deal with him.
When I first spoke to him about all of this, he was quite defensive with the view that I deserved how he treated me because he was scared. Some of the language he used was very much like what his dad would say. So I have no doubt that he has been brain washed by him during his stay.
I felt it right to tell him a few truths about his dad, that I had kept from him initially. I never wanted to tell him anything about his dads past behaviour for not wanting to mess with his head, aslong as his dad had kept his temper under control. But I can almost certainly see that he has gotten into my son's head since the other nights incident and has rewritten the narrative of what happened without being there himself! The man is toxic and can break down the strongest person because he is relentless with his mind games and torture. There was absolutely no way I was going to let that man undo all my years of hard work in bringing up my children. So, I pointed out to my son that I can see how his dad has done a number on him and I revealed some details of how he has done this with me in the past. I didn't say too much, just enough, as I'm still not happy with telling him everything - my job is to protect him not cause him harm, and I believe him knowing absolutely everything would break him because he genuinely has his dad on a pedestal. When he is older and mentally stronger, I will tell him everything he wants to know. But not when he is so vulnerable.

As I said, he is finally home and I'm so glad he's back. I can tell in his body language he is happier to be back home, too.

Fingers crossed this will be a lesson to him.

I hope it's a lesson to you too. All I see in your most recent update is you continuing to blame him, liken him to his dad, elevate yourself to sainthood and taking pretty much zero responsibility for actually starting the whole thing off.

I actually find your update very alarming. Your son needs to be able to talk and be listened to, not dismissed and then lambasted further. You obviously hurt him very badly but you have completely brushed over that fact and all you've gone on about is how wrong he is and how amazingly fantastic you are.

It sounds like the poor kid is on a hiding to nothing with the pair of you as his parents, he's managed to draw two short straws.

I read OP’s update too and to be honest l don’t think you’re reading the same one if this is what you took from it.

But he wasn't talking was he? He was trying to justify threatening his own mum..... what are you talking about?

I was very apologetic about having misread his mood, and told him can see now why my comment added to his frustration. But, I also explained that he should have walked off instead when feeling his temper rise and not have intimidated and insulted me like he did. We went back and forth quite a bit with me reiterating how I didn't deserve his response and him initially feeling it was justified

She didn't hurt him very badly. He was trying to throw his weight around. She apologised, so didn't brush it off..... seriously.... what on earth are you talking about?

Can't stand coming on here and seeing an OP write somthing in black and white and people still come along and try and change what the OP has said..... despite the fact the rest of us can read it 🤦‍♀️

Its good he is home and seems to see your point of view.
But its very odd he was apparently so frightened. Why would he think you would actually hurt him?
Unless that's just a warped way to justify his temper.
If so I think you are definitely going to see his temper again.
Maybe seek him some anger management sooner rather then later

@RoseAlone

this! OP did nothing wrong. Stop it with your internalised misogyny

If only the misogyny was kept internal, then we wouldnt have to keep reading their rubbish excuses for men

You are talking absolute rubbish.

@RoseAlone the conditioning really runs deep with you doesn’t it.

He continued to justify his violence and aggression because he was ‘frightened’ - a total excuse.

OP is likening him to his abusive father because he is repeating behaviours and language of his abusive father to justify his violence and aggression.

When people wonder how this violent, entitled apologetic men come to be, people like you in their life refusing to hold them to account and blaming the victims are part of the problem.

I get the feeling this one is going to grow up to make the life of his partner a misery.

Honestly you still don’t get it?? Why would he think OP was going to hurt him?? Because she said “do you want to die” to a child who has witnessed (despite OP’s constant denials of this) dv! OP keeps insisting he didn’t see it as a child, the father is not like this now … REALLY??? The man suddenly changed overnight, and is now a perfect man/husband/parent?? 🙇‍♀️🙇‍♀️🙇‍♀️

Not by being sent to his abusive father to sort him out, that’s for sure!

How do you know he witnessed anything. You have jumped to so many conclusions its just daft .