To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

You’re very biased here, you’re on her side because she’s a woman but she’s told her son ‘ do you want to die’ over a pile of washing. They are both in the wrong but one of them is a child and she’s the adult. I don’t know why she thought saying that it’s ok, their family needs collective therapy

Once and for all, the OP was using dramatic hyperbole in a light hearted way to ram home that damp clothing can become mouldy and generally unpleasant, and in extreme cases it can impact one's health and well-being. It was not a threat, it was an attempt at getting her point across so that her son can become a functioning member of society and doesn't end up socially isolated because he smells musty, or gets a chill, or contact dermatitis etc.

Can we please get over the nit picking and suggestions that physical and verbal intimidation is an understandable response in any way to a mother trying to instil basic domestic skills in her truculent offspring?

If only you had just done his washing for him OP, then none of this would have happened…

surprised no one has said this given the bizarreness of some of these posts!

No they’re not both in the wrong at all. He put the washing in the drier and attempted to take it out before it was dry. OP told him to put it back in the drier and five minutes later he was back doing the same thing. OP made a joke of it asking if he wanted to die - meaning that he needed to leave the washing to dry before he wore it or he would be ill. The posters splitting hairs over this are using it as a stick to beat OP with. It was meant as a joke. He clearly didn’t understand it. And that’s OK. What is not OK is his aggressive and abusive reaction. I’m not biased. Not one bit. No woman is responsible for a violent and abusive reaction from a male, to anything they say, whether it’s their partner or their child. Sixteen is old enough for him to know what he’s doing and that makes him as much of a threat as a full grown man. What you said was akin to telling OP she asked for it.

Me too. Expected it a long time ago. Suppose we need to be thankful for small mercies !!

This. All day long.

At least there won’t be a next time, he knows you will put him out.

Not necessarily. Sometimes it's just light-hearted comments.

I think if you and ExP had a DV rship, saying "do you want to die?" To DS might have been insensitive and started this confrontation that a teenager escalated.

His behaviour was disgusting and his dad should back you up but I dont think you should say such things to anyone in your home

Ffs it doesn't matter what she said to him. He threatened her and verbally abused her. That is not her fault for speaking, even if he disliked what she said. There are many levels to go through before getting to violence and abuse. E.g. asking "what do you mean?" Or leaving the room because you are feeling wound up and didn't like the comment that was made to you. Or even, "oh my God, why would you say that?"

Do you square up to anyone who makes a comment you find "weird" or unfunny? What kind of a way is that to go through life?

Why ? If you read the OP’s updates, she clearly says that her son wasn’t much more than a toddler when they split up and didn’t witness any DV. And her ex wasn’t abusive to the children.

Totally unacceptable how your son and ex have acted violent towards you. Sending strength 💐

And he started mimicking his dad’s behaviour 🤨 He clearly saw dv .. most kids do even when parents think they don’t. Not only that, but the dad has continued his tirade of abuse from afar - again dc will notice, see and be aware. OP asks ‘in an exasperated tone” do you want to die?” .. why exactly will taking wet clothes out of the dryer cause you to die? Why exactly? Not even to the young 16 year old, but to all adults, please explain why taking wet clothes out of the dryer will make you die??? It was a stupid thing to say, in an already vulnerable, traumatised home. THEN OP sends the child away to his abusive dad, and expects him to teach him why he shouldn’t be abusive to his mother! You couldn’t make it up! As pp’s have said, this whole family needs help and therapy.

Being a toddler and not on the receiving end of physical violence doesnt mean he wasnt impacted. Their will have been an atmosphere in the house, and kids notice more than people realise.

But I still dont think someone against violence should be saying things like "do you want to die?" Context is important there but her meaning and his understanding seem wildly far apart and she was the first to make a threat

Living with domestic abuse is considered an ACE (adverse childhood experience). Of course it will have impacted him on some level.

But I still dont think someone against violence should be saying things like "do you want to die?" Context is important there but her meaning and his understanding seem wildly far apart and she was the first to make a threat
I still say co text a d tone of voice is everything.
Theres a world of difference between saying it in a nasty way or a jokey fashion.
If the adolescent can't tell the difference now, how is he going to cope out side the home when mates, random people etc make daft jokes. Is he going to fly off the handle and take everything literally and puff up his chest and name call?

Well sure but he’s 16!

i don’t understand why this simple question of parenting strategies is turned here into a massive game of “who has to be ashamed.” Its not useful. Its not relevant. No one is blaming OP. Its not useful to assign blame or shame.

However we have an unspooling set of incidents: OP is the one who chose the order of the action. Her comment “do you want to die” was the start of the unravelling of behavior. And she is asking the question here “what can I do.” So she gets the chance, here, to examine her behavior and mske a different choice. As they say “if you keep doing what you do, you will get what you got.” She can change. She can’t make him change. She can’t angrily punish him to change. She can only figure out how she wants to live, build that world, and invite him back.

it’s entirely up to her. Its easy for mumsnet to treat this 16 year old as a throwaway—just a hulking abuser, an (ugh) man like his father. Lots of posters have advocated criminalizing him, treating him like an adult, beating him, slapping him, exiling him, throwing his things out, telling him never to come home, etc..etc..etc…Is that what OP wants? She sounds devastated. To her he is her child—she loves him and has tried to live with him and raise him despite her husband’s violence and cruelty. She wanrs him back. She wants to heal the relationship. The advice of posters telling her to beat or insult him into submission is not relevant. They want the same authoritarian peace her ex does: they made a desert snd they called it peace. The adult must win or we all lose.

In reality just the opposite is the case. OP needs to find a way to demonstrate and live non violence with her son. They are two traumatized people living under one roof. She is the elder, she is his parent, she has a capacity that he doesn’t to recognize the course of events and deescalate.

As soon as her “joke” elicited such a strong reaction she should have backed up and given him space. As everyone has pointed out an aggressive posture and chest puffing is a fight/flight response. It does not mean he was a danger to her. Both animals and humans will posture to puff themselves up snd scare away an attacker. Most if the time this works and no fight ensues. He needed not to be cornered. He needed a way to retreat.

As for the OP as a trauma victim herself the same advice applies . She obviously became overwhelmed with memories of DV snd was hijacked by her amygdala. The advice I give clients is “step back” move away from what is frightening you until distance lets you feel safe enough that your prefrontal cortex cones online. From that vantage point you can make better decisions.

Both she and her son could benefit from non violence training (books, videos).Try more trauma therapy. Think about this incident as a chance to model intelligent, compassionate, problem solving skills to your son.

As others have said start by reconnecting to him. Ask him what each of you could have done differently. Ask him, with curiosity, what each of you could fo differently next time. Don’t offer perfection—and don’t demand it. Just offer, and receive (hopefully) forgiveness and reattachment as mother and child.

Op said jokey but exasperated. Her tone, in my mind, would not have come across as jokey. And we’re talking about a child who has grown up around dv .. not your average typical child.

Right: a child who has grown up around dv so knows that a “joke” can conceal a threat. Why is s it so hard for posters here to grasp that Op’s words were not taken as she meant them? Do abusive men never say they love you as they are beating you? Never cover their rampant hostility with jokes about violence? Never diminish your self worth by saying something threatening and then accusing you of “having no sense of humor?” Because those are absolutely standards of abusive relationships.

Op said jokey but exasperated. Her tone, in my mind, would not have come across as jokey. And we’re talking about a child who has grown up around dv .. not your average typical child.
I get that but how is he going to cope ' in the real world' if someone makes a joke he doesn't understand? Is he going square up to them everytime he thinks someone has 'disrespected ' him?

I am afraid it looks like your son is going the same way as his abusive Father . You are far better off with him away from you @summerviews.

I also live in a safe secure loving home and we have plenty of banter between us and our teens- I can well imagine how the OP said what she did and its completely irrelevant to the issue.

Really?

Maybe he is! That’s the point. OP has to show him how functional adults defuse scary situations. “Squaring up to someone “ and getting ready to fight *are what he learned at daddy’s knee.” He has to unlearn that. How can he do that with OP acting like he is an unexploded land mine?

This is a lot of elaborate victim blaming. He's 16. Old enough to know better.