To throw my 16 yr old son out after he squared up to me

[summerviews]

I have been busy all weekend sanding the staircase. My son brought two big bags of washing down and asked if they could be done. I said of course.
An hour or so had passed and I thought I'd ask him to put a wash on. He did this, no bother.
A couple of hours later I asked him to pop his washing into the dryer. Which he did.
Roll on this evening my eldest came home and wanted to get a wash on ready for work tomorrow. He put it on a quick wash. Once it's done, he goes to the dryer and realises stuff is in there and it's still wet! My 16 yr old son says he doesn't know why, and wants to take it out regardless. I explain that he should keep it in the dryer and let it dry properly or the clothes will stink if left damp or wet. He tells me I'm to blame as the dryer is my responsibility. I let this narky comment slide and calmly tell him to leave the washing in and turn it back on.
I know what's happened, he's put his washing in there earlier and not started it at the beginning of the cycle, so it's only done a half cycle, if that. But I say nothing (I pick my battles).
Literally less than five mins later 16 yr old walks to dryer and begins to pull everything out to check if it's dry yet. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I say "son, do you actually want to die?! In a playful, yet exasperated tone. "Put the washing back in!" I get up and begin to make my way over there to put everything back in, as he's just standing there with an angry look. As I'm walking, he says, "SAY THAT AGAIN!!". I tell him not to talk to me like that, that I'm trying to help him. He is still stood stock still, fists clenched and butts me with his chest (like a 'come on then!' kind of thing) he's done that to me once before a very long time ago and he was distraught with himself for being so horrible to me. I'm shocked at his reactions to say the least as it was never that deep as I now realise he's being aggressive and this is ridiculous behaviour. I tell him to stop and to have some respect, I remind him I'm his mother and to never do that to me again because I won't tolerate it! He then loudly shouts that I'm a "BITCH!" in my face. So I quickly walk away from him. I'm literally gasping for words, as I'm so upset and shocked. I shout to him to pack a bag and get out, that I will not stand for violent abusive behaviour from a child of mine.
I text his dad to come and get him (were not together). I say to him, don't ask my why ATM, son will explain.
He goes upstairs packs some stuff and leaves, shouting a cheery "bye everyone!" as he goes. Once son has left, I text dad asking him to talk to son about domestic abuse and that I don't tolerate it, and that I am ashamed of son's actions.
An hour or so later my phone is flooded with voice notes and messages from his dad accusing me of saying "do you want to die??" And that son was right to react the way he did and me saying it was abusive and violent is just the sort of thing I would typically do.
Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him.
Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him.
For the rest of the evening I'm told I'm cancerous and is why no one wants to be with me and I'm a pathetic excuse of a mother.
I remind him of the abuse he has done when together and that I should not have expected anything in the way of advice to son from such an abuser. He continues to flood my phone with how I deserved what I got when we were together and that son is better off with him as I'm a pathetic excuse.
I blocked him. I can't take anymore of his abuse. I have been sobbing all evening.
I know my son will be upset with his actions today.
I was hasty in calling his dad, I know that now. At the time I was frightened and wanted to show my son I wouldn't tolerate such abuse.
I'm still sobbing. I don't want my son turning out like his father. I shouldn't have sent him to him. I've sent him into the lions den.

I worded it clumsily but I’m just saying - I wouldn’t throw him out knowing he would just have the option to go to abusive dad and learn more abusive behaviour.

I wouldn’t accept it, I would remove myself from the situation and probably stay with a friend or go to a hotel, as at that age she can absolutely leave the house and leave him and brother at home. Before coming back I would firmly tell him he has to get some counselling, I suspect the boy has picked up a lot of the behaviour from his dad sadly anyway. Yes it’s unfair the victim leaves but if safety is the concern it’s probably the safer option to get yourself out anyway.

It’s in no way acceptable but I would not want to push him closer to his dad knowing the history.

@tothelefttotheleft

is that really the thing that you’re picking out to focus on?? Not the violence/aggression? Really??

Posters may not have explicitly condoned the sons behaviour, but there have certainly been one or two "It was wrong, but...." when really when it comes to males threatening violence against women there should never be a but. There have been some minimising and attempts to normalise "its a teenager being a teenager" and a lot of focus on the OPs comment which serves to divert attention from the seriousness of her sons. None of which is remotely helpful, including to the son.
Young males showing tendancy to aggression towards women must be taken extremely seriously and urgently addressed. The way to address it is for them to manage their anger and control themselves, not for the focus to be on the women they intimidate avoiding upsetting them, as its not possible to protect men from the possibility of ever hearing a comment they don't like. Men who don't learn its their responsibility to excercise self control are not only a danger to women, but risk ruining their own lives through criminalisation, so excuses do no favours.

That's really scary and upsetting OP. Obviously it was a mistake to involve his dad, but as far as kicking him out of the house, you did exactly right. His behaviour was violent and aggressive and I would be seriously considering what's next in terms of making sure he understands the completely unacceptable nature of what he did. I think I would make it clear that if there is a next time, he won't be allowed back in the house. Maybe ask him to decide what he should do now to make amends and change his ways. He might suggest some MH support or counselling, which may be a good idea.

For the holier than thous breaking their necks to justify this behaviour and blame it on OP:

This is not the first time he’s done it

He was clearly not feeling under threat but insulted by a mere woman who should have been doing his bidding as soon as he snapped his fingers

She sent him to his father as he had not been abusive whilst coparenting yet showed his true colours once asked to correct behaviour in his son that he himself had enacted

But it’s on OP to watch what she says, don’t provoke, don’t punish, ignore the fact that she was the victim of the abuse and not protect herself.

I witnessed and was subject to extreme DV as a child but I’ve never once been violent to another person as a result.
Despite receiving very real verbal threats of harm, I was and still am able to discern between real threats and figures of speech.

But I am a woman so have some magic ability to behave correctly despite all that which male children seem to lack according to the handmaidens.

Next time any of you wring your hands about VAWG and what can be done, expend some of your righteous judgement on yourselves.

Way to focus on entirely the wrong thing. Always the victim’s fault right?

Op whereas I completely agree with not showing your son the screenshot. Dont shy away from being honest either about their dad's behaviour. You don't need to insult their dad or tit for tat but point out when its appropriate to that dads handling of the situation was not correct and some communication he sent over was offensive.

I took it to mean ‘do you want to die’ i.e. catch a death cold from the damp clothes. Nothing mean at all.

I'd have done more than throw him out. If anything you underreacted. He's going to become a very angry violent man if this behaviour is allowed to continue.

I think I agree with others that everybody overreacted here. That being said, you cannot live in a situation where your son thinks it is acceptable to physically intimidate you as a response to a perceived slight. When your son calms down I think accepting him back at the home requires a discussion about how you will deal with escalating tension, and that neither of you are permitted to physically intimidate the other. I think calling the police is better than calling his dad.

Nah, I can’t be polite about all the absolute weirdos on this thread clutching their pearls and whimpering over ‘Omg, why would you threaten to KILL your child??????!!!’

Feck, me get a fecking grip, would you? She obviously hasn’t really threatened to kill her kid. Anyone with a minuscule amount of social intelligence can tell it’s a joke.

What’s even worse is the ones justifying the kid’s behaviour or (pretending badly) not to know what that means. Are you thick? Squaring up to someone is knocking your chest with theirs to initiate a fight or aggression. That isn’t a teenager ‘over reacting’. It’s a teenage boy behaving violently or for all you who can’t see that, threatening an act of violence. Against his mum. Because she made a joke about him being an eejit over the dryer? Not a normal reaction on the teenager’s part.

If any of my brothers did that to my mam they’d have been ten feet under. Regardless if the kid has gotten it from his dad it’s not acceptable.

OP, please don’t listen to half the plonkers on here. I get what you meant. Your boy needs some kind of therapy to deal with his reactions because that isn’t a typical response.

Someone is on the Kool aid early today ...

Agree your DS should apologise to you for his aggression and abusive language. 100% not acceptable. Understandable you were affected.

However, are you planning to apologise to your DS for joking about this?

Having a laugh is important, but doesn’t set a good example to joke about violence or death. Why do it? It may not be meant to cause harm, but if you say that to a person who (possibly unbeknownst to you) is feeling so depressed and anxious they might feel like they want to die, it can be very harmful.

Also, might be helpful to reflect on why you told him to leave and go to his father’s home. IMHO would be better to deal with it yourself: (if safe) calmly suggest he goes to his room until he’s calmed down or remove yourself from his presence, rather than send him to his other parent to deal with. It can be damaging for kids of any age to be rejected by a parent. It’s best they stay at home when feeling like that. If you ask them to leave the house, they may be a danger to themselves.

Also, might help to treat him as a young adult rather than telling him what to do like a child. If his elder brother needed the dryer, he could’ve asked him directly to move his stuff. Was there any need for you to intervene? If he ends up with musty laundry, it’s his choice. In a calmer moment you could explain how to operate the dryer correctly. Also, it’s pretty impressive these days for a 16yo to be dealing with their own laundry. Helps to give credit where it’s due: praise rather than criticism.

Ignore your ex. He’s definitely being abusive and likely bad-mouthing you to your DS. He’s basically capitalising on a fairly typical parent-teenager scenario.

Arrange to meet with your DS somewhere neutral and hear what he has to say first. Truly listen to his pov with humility. Tell him you love him and want him home. Show him you regret how you acted (if you do). But be firm that, as a man, it’s important he learns ways not to be aggressive or abusive when frustrated or aggrieved. Walk away, breath deeply, distract himself (with music, tv etc) and chill.

With my teen/young adult kids, it helped afterwards to see the funny side about how we both behaved to relieve tension and avoid on-going resentful. None of us are perfect all the time. On that note, hopefully it’ll all come out in the wash.

I originally thought you were agreeing with me until you got to the ' Would they ( which did include me as in the previous sentence you said me and a few other posters) be the same as if it were a daughter? Is that not favouritism? Which we see in dysfunctional families' bit. Because the only way I can see to interpret that is that I am favouring males and you see favouritism as a dysfunctional family trait.

Sorry if you didn't mean that, but that does appear to be the plain meaning of what you wrote.

What did you mean by that then?

I get where you’re coming from but it isn’t about it not being “fair” per se. Op leaving just reinforces that you can become physically aggressive to get someone to stop behaving in a way you don’t like. It encourages that behaviour. He's then left entirely consequence free (in fact in a better position because mum isn’t here so no rules) and leaves the brother at risk too (if he’s violent towards her he could just as well be violent towards him), while she can’t even come home.

She can’t force him to go to counselling so if he refuses she’s at a stalemate and either needs to go back home and show that being stubborn as well as aggressive will get him his own way, or stay out of the house indefinitely.

She’s damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t because she’s saddled with a shitty, abusive co-parent. Expecting his dad to help in anyway is naive at best, but they’ve apparently coparented civilly since they broke up and he hasn’t been overtly abusive (as in directed at them) to the children before, so it wasn’t that much of a bizarre choice made under pressure

His behaviour was terrible and unacceptable, but 'do you want to die' is such a weird turn of phrase - my young adult DC would react badly to that (not squaring up but would be very wtaf mum and maybe quite upset). We joke around a lot but that would be too far for me.
I hope you can patch things up and come to some sort of understanding.

"Whilst I have screenshots of his dad's messages from last night, I think showing them to DC will only act as playing off one parent against the other - and I'm not about that. He can see what his dad is like and if he wants to ask questions, I'll always answer them truthfully. But I am not playing a tit for tat game. I don't play games."

"He can see what his dad is like" - are you sure of that? I wouldn't be. You also said "Ex was extremely abusive when we were together. That's the reason I left him. Since then he has been a great father. No signs of abuse with new partner and soin look up to him."

Your son can only see what his dad is like to himself, he cannot see what his dad is like to you - not unless either you or his dad show him. His father is clearly doing his damnedest to not show your son what an abuser he is.

I'm not saying you should show your son the screenshots, but right now I'd expect he's being fed a narrative by his dad, and since you're taking the high road / keeping quiet about it, your son has no narrative countering whatever his father feeds him. So no - your son cannot see what his dad is like as he is only being provided with half the picture.

I think you should consider giving your son the information he needs to form a true picture. The untrue picture he currently holds may have been a factor in his aggression towards you.

I expect your son will hold out an olive branch after time at his dad's is not nirvana. Before he returns meet him in a neutral place to discuss what happened and how you can both go forward. Establish some new house rules, with input from his brother, but make it clear that you never want to feel threatened again. You can say that is how you felt sometimes with their dad, unless they witnessed it, without going into details.

Trying to Alpha?

He's acting menstrual?

That's the kind of comment misogynists throw about. I'd expect that from his dad, based on your description, but not from you.

Again, you might want to look at your own communication style.

You escalated the situation right from the start. in fact there wasnt a situation at all. Maybe you were exhausted from your stairs DIY.
Anyhow He will apologise - he lost his temper - but kept physical control. You will no doubt apologise - you created, then wound up the dryer 'situation'.
There's lessons for you both. And im sure you can work out what they are.

You didn’t say anything wrong, many many mums here in the real world say things along the lines of ‘do you have a death wish?’

You need to keep setting firm boundaries with him and explain to him that real men do not bully and intimidate women (or men!)

Chest bumping your mother is in no way keeping physical control

Rude? You seriously think something like this can be trivialised as just 'rude'?! For crying out loud.

Sounds as if the OPhas a good handle on the situation going forward, and I hope very much things can be improved upon and resolved in a short space of time.

Reading some of the replies has been interesting, and one thing I would add is that sometimes a situation can go from 0 - 100 in almost a split second, without time to "choose your words" or do a big picture calculation. Also, there are occasions where you have a bewildering "row" with a lived one, apparently out of nowhere, and later on, when the dust settles, and you manage to talk it out, you realise you've actually got someone else's argument, possibly a boss or a colleague or any other figure where the consequences of "squaring up" will have "more serious" repercussions that one would wish to avoid

It's like a child screaming "I hate you" because they want to vent, and you're the safe space. I've had it in otherwise loving relationships, where someone finally goes off like a pressure cooker, and whoever is on the receiving end has no idea WTF has happened or where it came from, until later.

I'm not excusing any of it by the way, it's more from a position of both understanding how things blow up out of nowhere and also acknowledging that the aggression is wrong and needs to be addressed, when things have calmed down.

On a wider note, the whole "laundry" and misogyny issues reminded me of a thread I was active on a while back, about Jordan bloody Peterson. I made the point that mothers have been telling their sons to tidy their rooms for years, with extreme resistance and rudeness (Speaking from experience), and then along comes the Prof saying the same and it's like enlightenment from on high. Someone clapped back with "well how would you like it if a member of the opposite sex told you what to do".

I don't think I managed to write a coherent reply because it was just like having a bucket of cold "woman know your place" water chucked over me. And it made me so angry and sad that still, even in terms of child rearing and relationships, women are seen as lesser, and deserving of being kept in their place, even by their sons, whose best interests are usually foremost in their minds.

Anyway, this whole thread has been thought provoking in many ways, but most importantly I hope the OP and her son can work things out constructively and that he understands how hurtful and scary his behaviour was to a woman who by all accounts has protected and nurtured him as a single parent for over a decade, and also that she was entitled to defend herself to prevent it escalating by getting him out of the house. That takes some guts and should help with boundaries moving forward.