To cut holiday short

[ToddlerSleep]

I’m on a very child friendly fully catered 4-night UK break with DS 6 (nearly 7) and DS just turned 4, and I’m not coping with their behaviour. DH is a great and involved dad and couldn’t come due to work. We knew this would be the case and therefore chose this particular place as there’s so much for children to do and should in theory have worked. We are due to go home on Friday, but WIBU to go home tomorrow? Below is a snapshot of 6 hours of my day and it’s been like this from morning til night since Monday. Have I brought them up badly? Or is this just normal behaviour from them and I am being a useless parent? Please be gentle with me. It’s day 3 and I’m now in tears.

I had two more 1-night trips planned with them in the summer holidays and I have told them we are no longer doing them due to their behaviour. I am regretting doing this holiday and had I known beforehand how they would behave, there’s no way I would have done it.

It’s absolutely relentless. I put in clear boundaries and follow through with consequences eg taking away toys, time out, missing activities that we had planned, and it has no impact. They say sorry and it won’t happen again, and 5 mins later it happens again.

1. In the morning they have to be asked several times to please take their pyjamas off, please come brush your teeth, please put your socks on etc.
2. while this is taking place, DS6 won’t stop teasing DS4 despite being told several times to stop. DS4 gets upset, I have to step in.
3. DSs then refuse to put their shoes on themselves, they are too tired, it’s too hard etc. I stand my ground and in the end stand outside the flat and tell them to just get on with it.
4. We walk to breakfast (2 mins away) and DS6 is teasing DS4 again
5. We get to the dining room and there’s an argument about who will sit with whom
6. I get them their drinks and then go to get their food. When I’m back with food I find that DS4 has had an accident with his drink resulting in it spilt everywhere.
7. While eating there’s more teasing.
8. We walk back to our flat and there’s more teasing.
9. We get to our flat and there’s an argument about who will open the door.
10. We then go to an activity, more whinging about shoes, and there’s more teasing on the way. DS4 keeps running off as well to whatever takes his fancy on the way. I have to keep running after him so I don’t lose sight of him.
11. It’s now lunchtime and both say they are hungry but won’t eat the food I have for them and are whinging. It’s normally their favourite. DS4 keep running off, DS6 whinging about whatever.
12. We go to watch a show, which I know DS6 loves. DS6 constantly whinging he doesn’t want to see it and I had promised him we won’t see it (I never did), DS4 making whinging noises and I don’t know why.
13. Get to the show, whinging continues and now we also have an argument about who sits on which seat.
14. Show is over, kids had loved it, more teasing on the way back to the flat which I have to break up. DS4 keeps running off.
15. Another argument at the door about who will open it.
16. I need to repack my rucksack while DS6 keeps teasing DS4 and eventually he is lying on top of DS4 tickling him while DS4 is crying. I keep having to step in over and over again to break it up while trying to concentrate on my rucksack.
17. Off to the next activity 5 mins walk away. More whinging about them having to put on their shoes themselves. I realise when I get to the activity that I have forgotten something key to pack into my rucksack so we have to walk back.
18. DS4 was trailing behind us, then suddenly has disappeared and we can’t find him anywhere. 20 minutes of running around in tears trying to find him. Activity is now missed.
19. I want to go back to the flat, DSs just won’t listen and come with me, so it takes me 10 minutes to get them to move. DS4 again keep running off, DS6 is teasing again.
20. Once in the flat, DS4 has a 30 minute stand off to get undressed so I can shower him. DS6 also has to be asked 10 times but at least he does it.

Gruesome. The 4 year old would be. Baby reins for starters and theybeoukd be grounded. And theh better at hkme? What will the journey be like

How do you manage their behaviour at home when DH is not around? Will they be any better at home?

Mine would be just as awful the same at home as on holiday, so I would stay, but put my foot down with the behaviour. Whatever consequence you have (time out?) for the teasing/not listening to simple instructions needs to be implemented just as strictly on holiday as when you’re at home. Make sure you’ve got some fun treats lined up for when they’re being good too!

Why are you asking them to do things, and not telling them?

What are the consequences of their behaviour?

Do you tell them the plan for the day and give them a bit of choice eg. Park or swimming? Pizza or pasta? Let one choose afternoon activity the other the morning.

Do they have favourite toys and tablets with them for some down time? Are you sticking to usual bedtime routine? I always found that helped.

It's normal for little kids to act up a bit on holiday they're out of their routine and it's all new, but it does sound like nobody is having fun. Is there a soft play or somewhere you can let them run off some steam and get yourself a coffee?

I hadn’t thought of baby reins. We do have them at home but don’t use them anymore. I think he’s just very excited and I feel I could cope with it if it wasn’t for everything else on top. They were grounded tonight but DS6 doesn’t seem to grasp what’s going on. He just kept saying “why can’t we go to the playground” while I kept repeating myself and explaining his behaviour to him what must have been over 15 times. I was even crying at one point. At home he also teases DS4 but I feel better able to manage it, because I can send him to his room or put in other consequences that I don’t have on holiday.

Get yourself home love

You have my heartfelt sympathy. Being honest I think if you’ve got the strength to go through with it, taking them home early might be the right decision. I know when you’ve been looking forward to a nice holiday it’s pretty devastating to give up and go home, but it really doesn’t sound like any fun for you anyway. And it might not be a bad thing long term for them to remember that you will do something like take them
home early from a holiday if they’re naughty enough. If they do get the serious consequences this one time they will take you far more seriously if you threaten it in future. Kids can be really challenging sometimes. I bet they can also be super cute too.

I think its fairly normal on holiday their tired out of routine and your all together 24/7. I remember the open the door argument but it was lift buttons we alternated every time we went in the lift it did stop the arguments as they knew who's turn it was. I would stay until friday but tomorrow take a different approach if they dont want to put their shoes on fine you wont be going anywhere sit down and watch some telly or read until they get themselves sorted. If they dont eat there food thats up to them they wont starve by missing a meal. If they dont want to shower fine its 1 day. When you go out you sit their you sit their no pissing about. Basically pick your battles.

Sounds grim. If you decide to head home early, I totally get it.

Just a couple of tips if you can bring yourself to stick it out:
Choose your battles - if them putting their own shoes on is a trigger, just put them on for them on the days when you want to get out and about quickly.

In terms of teasing, I would go for one of two approaches: zero tolerance. Just keep telling 6 yr old to stop. He’s seeking your attention, so a short, firm “stop winding your brother up” on repeat. Alternatively, I’d completely ignore it and change the subject, specifically involving the one who had been teased and initially ignoring the teaser until they rein it in.

The other tip I would give is scrupulous fairness:
meal 1 - child A chooses where to sit. Child B gets to unlock the door when you get back to the room.
meal 2 - swap over.

I would love to say it gets easier but my 16 yr old has been winding my 11yr old up non-stop this holiday!

Other than the running off, this could be my DS’ age 10 and 7! DS1 teases DS2 constantly. DS2 screeches. Repeat.

Poor you! Holidays can be stressful times al round. I think I’d need to get to the bottom of the teasing as that seems relentless.

Telling them to stop and removing things hasn’t worked so I’d try a different approach.

There will be a reason behind this repeated behaviour. He could be jealous of his younger brother and see him as competition for your attention, he could get annoyed with him for touching his stuff etc. I’d try therapeutic parenting techniques such as empathising eg
to DS 4 “it looks like it upset you/hurt your feelings when DS6 just did/said that? That’s a hard feeling to have. I know he loves you he’s maybe feeling a bit wobbly right now”
to DS 6 (privately if appropriate) “it sounds like DS 4 is really annoying you right now, I’m just wondering what’s happening for you … are you feeling jealous because he needs more mummy time than you? Maybe that looks like I love him more than you because he gets more of me ? That must be a hard feeling to have. I love you sooo much, you are my special six year old and I love that you xxxxxx. I have to help DS4 because he’s 4 and you are 6. When you were 4 I had to xxxxxx for you too. It must be hard to have those worries but it hurts DS4s heart when you xxxx and he loves you so much. I know you have a kind heart and don’t want to upset him, it’s tricky when you’ve got big feelings. Do you think you could show you’re sorry and that you care for him by eg taking him his drink?”

These are just random examples, if you take a minute to pause, reflect on what might be triggering DS6, empathise with him and offer him nurture then think of how to help him with his worries.

I wouldn’t say all of that in one go unless you think he could process it. It’s just ideas.

Also, keep the consequences but try to make them related to the action, eg if he breaks DS4s toy he shows sorry by contributing (a nominal amount) towards a replacement.
Look up natural and logical consequences.

Reassure them that you as the adult will keep everyone safe physically and emotionally and that “we love each other and try to be kind because we are a family” etc

Good luck

Stop giving them options to argue. So for the door arguments? Before you even get to the door say DS4 opened it last time so it’s DS6 turn this time. No room for discussion. For food, just get out their lunchboxes, eat yours and if they wine say it’s that or nothing. If they choose nothing then fine. At breakfast allocate seats. Not sure what all the rucksack packing and unpacking was about as that seemed a lot of drama but pack the night before once they are in bed.

Sending DS6 to his room at home could be making him feel rejected and more jealous of DS4. He could be sitting up there feeling intense shame and not understanding himself and feeling like a terrible person, justifying your apparent favour of DS4. (This is just a suggestion, I don’t know if it is jealousy based).

It could be a logical consequence to separate them if he was physically harming his brother and you could not keep him safe but it would ideally be for emergencies only.

In the long term if they develop understanding and empathy for themselves then they can move on to developing understanding and empathy of others.

It sounds horrible for you. Come home. Don’t do a holiday again until they can moderate their behaviour to a manageable level

Definitely manage their expectations in advance, “when we get to xxx this is what’s happening, I expect xxx” etc

Definitely be firm and predictable, tight routines, tight expectations, consistency etc but also add in the empathy to tackle the underlying causes.

They’re tricky ages, and out of routine and you’re doing it single handed.

I’d start by making getting dressed and ready fun. We played a song and by the end of it they had to be dressed and ready to go - make it a race, first one ready presses the lift button. If they’re getting in each others way I’d separate them, bring the 4 year olds stuff into to the room you’re in - with a line of sight to the older one. If they’re not ready by the end of the song I’d physically dress them myself.

If they 4 year old runs off they need to hold your hand, no negotiation - if they can can’t walk safely they need to hold on to you.

Teasing I’d either ignore or interrupt/distract. If you need to do something and they’re messing around they both sit on the floor apart while you do whatever it is.

At dinner get food first then drinks, if they’re winding each other up take one with you while you get food/drinks etc.

You need to divide and conquer, they’re still little but they also need to know when to stop. Asking, gentle persuasion isn’t working so you need a more authoritative approach.

Or wind the holiday up early and get back to familiar territory. I have 2 with the same age gap and at that age they needed pretty clear boundaries firmly held.

Not unreasonable to bail out OP. I wouldn’t make a big deal of it, as they will have no concept of ‘how many days’ and they are young, probably responding to being a little thrown out of routine and forced together without much space, without their usual things around them. I think trying to parent in a different place, on your own, with DC out of routine, is very hard. IMHO holidaying with young children per se is rarely relaxing. I do it now with teens without a partner, but doing it with very young ones would have been no fun for me personally. As one friend said to me when we used to holiday with little ones years ago, ‘same sh*t, different place’. It sounds like no holiday for you and much easier to be at home. You can have some downtime and days out instead, which I always found more straightforward.

As others have said, set out your expectations before you go anywhere & stick to them. Any poor behaviour has consequences- and stick to it.
I'd also set up some sort of reward system - get 2 jars/tubs & every time you see good behaviour (agree what is 'good behaviour' beforehand) they get to put a Pom Pom/bead/coin in. When they reach 10 they get a treat. Good luck!

It's only now mine are 11 and 8 that I'll happily take them away alone overnight with me on my own. I could have done it earlier, but I wouldn't have enjoyed it and I think it would have been similar to what you are going through without having another adult! I'd come home early and perhaps give it a while before you try overnight trips again....

Doesn't sound like anyone is having fun, I'd go home.

It sounds horrific!
I used to love going away with my two and often went by myself with them as DH was ( and still is) self employed.
I wouldn't have gone if mine behaved like yours. They did get a bit irritable if we had a long day out but I would let them sleep in next morning if they needed to.

I think in your shoes I would tell them tomorrow that they behave and do everything when asked to do something and the minute they don't every one goes home. And mean it.

I would love to say it gets easier but my 16 yr old has been winding my 11yr old up non-stop this holiday!
Mine are 28 and 25 and still wind each other up, especially after they have had a few drinks. I just tell them to stop being knob heads but I don't think that would be the best approach for OP, well not for another 20 years!

It sounds like they are tired, overwhelmed and out of their routine. I don't think it's your parenting or that they are being awful on purpose.

What I've learnt over the years is that what children really need in the summer holidays is simplicity and quite a bit of downtime. Yes some days out are great but over do it and you just have over tired kids who can't cope. When we go on holiday it's pretty low key and not too busy.

It's a difficult age anyway and I definitely wouldn't have wanted to take DS on holiday solo at that age. I can remember some almighty meltdowns over suncream, getting dressed etc and would have really struggled on my own. You have my sympathy! I would head home as none of you are really enjoying this. Chalk it up to experience and move on!

This sounds like butlins 🥰 and your kids are the same age as mine. I can relate to a lot of it but the biggest issue seems to be the teasing. I would focus on that as a priority.

We had two drinks spilled this morning at home, it happens a lot with waving arms etc. I now put the cups practically out of reach, especially if I have to leave the table.

I don't expect my 4 year old to be able to get dressed and shoes on alone, but I ask him to do what he can and then I'll help. Sometimes the older one can be persuaded to help the little one.

The main take away is that you are not alone and your kids are not out of the ordinary, but try to get the teasing nailed. I tell mine, no-one talks to you like that. It's a slow process.

This sounds completely normal to me but maybe I’m not normal 😂

Stop paying for and organising activities. Just walk to playpark or paddling pool. Don't have set times you need to be somewhere. Chill.
Breakfast ..buy nesquik milk and biscuits have in the flat
Same for supper.
And fruit.
Holiday mode
Put them to bed in the shorts and t shirt they will wear next day
Make it easier for yourself.

I do think your 6yo is quite badly behaved and well old enough to completely understand.
stop with the please do this and that, as if they are doing you a favour. A good firm shouting is what he needs.