To cut holiday short

[ToddlerSleep]

I’m on a very child friendly fully catered 4-night UK break with DS 6 (nearly 7) and DS just turned 4, and I’m not coping with their behaviour. DH is a great and involved dad and couldn’t come due to work. We knew this would be the case and therefore chose this particular place as there’s so much for children to do and should in theory have worked. We are due to go home on Friday, but WIBU to go home tomorrow? Below is a snapshot of 6 hours of my day and it’s been like this from morning til night since Monday. Have I brought them up badly? Or is this just normal behaviour from them and I am being a useless parent? Please be gentle with me. It’s day 3 and I’m now in tears.

I had two more 1-night trips planned with them in the summer holidays and I have told them we are no longer doing them due to their behaviour. I am regretting doing this holiday and had I known beforehand how they would behave, there’s no way I would have done it.

It’s absolutely relentless. I put in clear boundaries and follow through with consequences eg taking away toys, time out, missing activities that we had planned, and it has no impact. They say sorry and it won’t happen again, and 5 mins later it happens again.

1. In the morning they have to be asked several times to please take their pyjamas off, please come brush your teeth, please put your socks on etc.
2. while this is taking place, DS6 won’t stop teasing DS4 despite being told several times to stop. DS4 gets upset, I have to step in.
3. DSs then refuse to put their shoes on themselves, they are too tired, it’s too hard etc. I stand my ground and in the end stand outside the flat and tell them to just get on with it.
4. We walk to breakfast (2 mins away) and DS6 is teasing DS4 again
5. We get to the dining room and there’s an argument about who will sit with whom
6. I get them their drinks and then go to get their food. When I’m back with food I find that DS4 has had an accident with his drink resulting in it spilt everywhere.
7. While eating there’s more teasing.
8. We walk back to our flat and there’s more teasing.
9. We get to our flat and there’s an argument about who will open the door.
10. We then go to an activity, more whinging about shoes, and there’s more teasing on the way. DS4 keeps running off as well to whatever takes his fancy on the way. I have to keep running after him so I don’t lose sight of him.
11. It’s now lunchtime and both say they are hungry but won’t eat the food I have for them and are whinging. It’s normally their favourite. DS4 keep running off, DS6 whinging about whatever.
12. We go to watch a show, which I know DS6 loves. DS6 constantly whinging he doesn’t want to see it and I had promised him we won’t see it (I never did), DS4 making whinging noises and I don’t know why.
13. Get to the show, whinging continues and now we also have an argument about who sits on which seat.
14. Show is over, kids had loved it, more teasing on the way back to the flat which I have to break up. DS4 keeps running off.
15. Another argument at the door about who will open it.
16. I need to repack my rucksack while DS6 keeps teasing DS4 and eventually he is lying on top of DS4 tickling him while DS4 is crying. I keep having to step in over and over again to break it up while trying to concentrate on my rucksack.
17. Off to the next activity 5 mins walk away. More whinging about them having to put on their shoes themselves. I realise when I get to the activity that I have forgotten something key to pack into my rucksack so we have to walk back.
18. DS4 was trailing behind us, then suddenly has disappeared and we can’t find him anywhere. 20 minutes of running around in tears trying to find him. Activity is now missed.
19. I want to go back to the flat, DSs just won’t listen and come with me, so it takes me 10 minutes to get them to move. DS4 again keep running off, DS6 is teasing again.
20. Once in the flat, DS4 has a 30 minute stand off to get undressed so I can shower him. DS6 also has to be asked 10 times but at least he does it.

How much time do you.actually.spend with your kids normally? It sounds like all this playing up is totally alien to you. Holidays with.kids are the same hell just a different place. How much free play are they getting? To let off steam? Make your life easier and pick your battles. Get them to play a part in the planning and choosing. Let them go to bed dirty. Go to the beach with buckets and spades and play for as long as they can or a park so they will wear themselves out.
I am a single mum and we had mad holidays, routines were allowed to slide a little. Don't make a rod for your.own back.
And if you thinks this is bad wait till they are sulky teenagers, moaning about Whitby Abbey being a ruin. Yes really.
Also think about what interests them my 14yo announced.thst he just wanted to go crabbing one day so he did that happily for hours. He was happy I was happy.
Have a theme like collect badges or fridge magnets from different places. Use local transport its a good way to relax and see the area.
Finally just go with.rhey.wsnt

Definitely the teasing to do things for them that they can do themselves: 'I can't believe I am putting shoes on for a six year old! I don't know what the world is coming to! I wonder what Mrs X (insert teacher's name here) would say if she could see you now?' Complete with overacting and eye rolling. It just diffuses the situation, gets the job done, and lets them know it is not really acceptable all at the same time.

In my office at work there was a social worker; she said, if you put everything in place by the time they are 3, and work hard at it, the rest is easy. And it is blooming hard work! Set the boundaries and expectations, be consistent, etc. However, after that, on the whole, things are easier.
There are times your kids need to listen to you, and there are times to let it slide.

Also, there are times they just need to chill - watch something decent on tv for an hour or so, curled up with them, talking about what they are watching.

Loving all the ‘just be firm and tell them to stop bickering’, ‘keep hold of the 4 year old all the time’ type advice! Tell me you’ve never dealt with two bickering, strong willed siblings on your own without saying it out loud. 🙄

Nothing wrong with‘just be firm and tell them to stop bickering’ as long as you tell them what a consequence will be if they carry on and follow through on that consequence ( remember to keep consequences reasonable and appropiate and something you can do)

You can't have a 4 yr old on reins. Max 18mth to 2 yrs surely. 4yr olds should be able to listen to instructions, you bribe them with rewards.
The 4 year old would hate it. So, to me that would be the consequence if he was told not to do it again bit did. A typical child would learn pretty quick that they don't want reins and therefore they can't run off.
.
I never 'bribed" with rewards. I didnt even do that with my three dogs. Both children and dogs were taught how me and their dad expected them to behave, not give them a treat for doing so.

Tell me you’ve never dealt with two bickering, strong willed siblings on your own without saying it out loud. 🙄*
My suggestions worked when mine were kids. Now the two bickering strong willed siblings are adults i just tell them shut the fuck up and ho to their own homes if they want to squabble like toddlers. That usually works these days!

Had to laugh at the praise for fantastic breathing! Thank you, I needed that 😊

It’s genuinely not time pressured. The only time pressure we have is making sure we get to breakfast before 10.30am. The timetable is there because DS6 likes to know what else is happening on resort so we can choose to do something else when we get bored of the usual playground and softplay. I only expected one shower over 5 days.

our morning has been a bit up and down but I am trying to stick through it. I know they can dress themselves with help but it’s frustrating when they won’t even take their pants off which I know they can. They know we are going home as soon as someone misbehaves.

I know DS4 is missing daddy as they keep asking for him.

DS6 is now on the playground holding hands with a little boy and helping him up and down a slide that they are going on over and over again, and being so gentle with him. I nearly cried again, this time for good reasons.

I think you’re very brave taking 2 boys that age away on your own! I didn’t build up the courage to take away mine alone until they were 9 years old and wanted to go into the kids club!

Your DC are the very worst age for holidays, even with 2 parents. Ignore what you can, baby them for speed when things need to happen. And go home if you're just done.
I wouldn't go away again alone. Day trips work better with this age, and you'll get some peace when they fall asleep in the car on the way home.
They'll get better.

What’s with all the teasing. What does that mean is it really bullying? This isn’t normal in my house.

are the kids just over scheduled? I find sometimes the nagging for kids to get out of their pjs is when they just need a day at home with no one chasing them out of the house.

Sympathies..I remember it well. Did it once and then holidayed with grandparents to share the load. Holidays were about low standards and bribes until they were a little older.

I think choosing your battles helps but my kids have SEN. Otherwise I'd be in a early grave.

Whingeing about shoes? Get some slip on pumps for holidays without dh.

Backpack and lead for ds4.

Mine are older but still intermittently argue and then play nicely. Get them to hold your hand as your between them. Say "whoever doesn't talk first opens the door".

But you have my sympathy. It's the relentlessness that drains.

Are we on the same holiday?! Sounds exactly like my holiday except DS managed to walk dog shit into the apartment this morning, all into the carpet. Ah good times. #makingmemories and all that.

You're very brave to do this holiday alone with DC that age. I'm a teacher and am at home with my DC during holidays (similar ages but 3 of them) and there is no way I would attempt travelling without my DH. They need predictability, routine, and very clear boundaries which is far easier to manage at home.

I literally write the schedule on a board every morning, and we follow it like it's a religious text. 7am Breakfast, 9am Playground, 12pm Lunch etc. The downside is that it's very monotonous, the only break I get is during the 90-min afternoon screen-time, and there is a lot of sitting in playgrounds and supervising playing, stopping them bickering etc. I buy myself a takeaway coffee everyday to make the day more pleasant.

I had the option to flying to stay in another country with my parents for 2 weeks, but I honestly couldn't bear the thought of doing the flight on my own. Also, just the day-to-day management is so much harder abroad, even with my parents around.

Would I end the holiday early? No. But I'd grit my teeth, count down the minutes, and wait until they were older to attempt it again on my own.

Your boys are competitive but selfish.

Organise some rewards for deadlines.

No TV unril dressed and finished breakfast.
First one finished gets to decide first activity.
Eat ice cream every night for sweets. Half a scoop each and an extra scoop can be earnt by showing kindness. One whole scoop is removed for bullying.
Be firm about any boundaries you make.

Research out a fee charging childcare activity that allows you to relax for an hour or two while the boys engage with drawing/sand castle making etc in a group.

Only take them on holidays with their father in future.
Team up as two teams of two (one parent and one child) and the best behaved group has money to spend at the airport.

Of course you put a 4yo on reins if necessary - he has no idea re traffic danger and could be serious injured whilst running off.

No advice (I never managed my two very effectively at the same age), but a ton of sympathy. I did several solo parent holidays at around the same age and I just remember being utterly exhausted. It’s so relentless and harder to navigate everything as you’re away from home. I do remember coming home earlier than planned on one occasion. The weather was terrible (UK) and no one was having much fun (myself included). I think I slept a full 24h when we got home and DH took over!

I thought this. In my experience TV and no exercise just encourages bad behaviour. They need exercise to run off some of their energy. Preferably in an enclosed space like a playground with a fence, not a beach if one is prone to running off

I think OP is doing her best by getting them out every day and I can't believe how many people are advising TV time. Mine were horrible after watching TV in the daytime - I had to put a total ban on it unless ill.

Totally wouldn't blame you for going home and I don't think it's your fault that they are bickering and playing up - normal for their age and a holiday/different routine always makes behaviour worse IME. Nightmare when you're on your own and outnumbered as well.

But also - natural consequences, call their bluff and be matter-of-fact. And for the 6-year-old bullying his brother, the consequence for that should be treats and priorities for the brother.

Shoe/PJ fuss. OK don't wear shoes then/keep your pjs on, I don't care. Chuck shoes/clothes in a bag and say they can have them if they ask nicely, and set off.

Refusing to get dressed, leave the flat etc. "Oh dear, I guess we won't be doing <insert whatever part of the day will appeal to them, ice creams, show, amazing climbing frame etc> It will be pretty boring sitting here all day though. Just say if you change your minds." No TV, screens, snacks etc, just sit there. They'll be bored stupid in about 5 minutes,

Seat fuss "OK I'm sitting here to stop you two arguing" (take middle seat). Ignore fuss and say "well you wouldn't make your minds up, behave yourself next time"

ANY teasing/bullying "OK DS6 you have been told over and over and you are being mean again. That means DS4 gets a treat/to decide what we do this afternoon/to pick the seat he likes/etc and every time you bully him he will get another treat or choice." I have found this stops it in its tracks - remember to then praise for treating his brother better.

Some great advice I read on here long ago was to play the 'bored cop". Avoid getting worked up and stressed. Just chill, point out they are not going to get what they want by dicking around, let them experience natural consequences and allow some time for them to make the right decision.

Then be effusive in your praise "I'm so happy we all managed to get out of the house in the end and had a great day. it was loads of fun doing XYZ with you, what did you like best?" etc.

Not judging you though, nor am I claiming to be parent of the year (far from it) but these things helped me when my DC were these ages.

First one finished gets to decide first activity.

Oh yes this is a great tactic too. Make them race against each other/bet them they can't get their shoes on in 20 seconds and start a timer/set them a challenge where they have to cooperate, with a reward like ice cream or getting to choose something. When they win the bet or beat the challenge, ham up the "wow I honestly never thought you would do it, how silly was I!" etc.

If it helps, I remember going to Disney world before I had children and I remember noticing how many small children were bickering, tantrumming, and how many parents looked completely at the end of their tether. I think this behaviour is normal for a lot of young children when they are in exciting, unfamiliar places.

And I've never taken my kids to Disney world!

'Lying on top of DS4 tickling him while DS4 is crying'. DS6 always 'teasing' DS4. It sounds like your older child is bullying the younger one. Is this why DS4 is running off?

As for the holiday, I'd probably just go home if it were me , as it doesn't sound like anyone is having much fun?

I'd say the bigger issue here is why DS6 feels the need to constantly 'tease' /bully his younger brother; and how this is going to stopped in the longer term (if this is a pattern at home also?).

I’d have absolutely lost it at the 6yr old by now for being a bully. Your 4yr old sounds more age appropriate to me (I also have one that age). We have 0 tolerance for teasing in our house and your 6yr old doesn’t seem to have any consequences for being repeatedly mean?

’DS6 keeps teasing DS4 and eventually he is lying on top of DS4 tickling him while DS4 is crying.’ This is seriously NOT ok or normal. A 6yr old knows not to do this and the laying on him and tickling him whilst your younger child cries is really alarming to me. I was SA by an older sibling who would ‘tease’ me a lot and my parents did nothing and it increasingly escalated as they knew there were no consequences. I’m not suggesting tickling is SA but this must be stopped now. He does not get to lay on your 4yr old ever or touch his body whilst he is crying. I’d have absolutely lost it at this.

Spilling drinks and asking for help are normal. The teasing, nastiness and constant complaining are not. I feel really sorry for 4yr old and am not surprised he’s acting out when he’s being constantly picked on.

Took mine this year and they both loved it 😆 But they also both got taken back for a rest each day! Depends on personality types, if they enjoy rides and managing expectations I think. My children also aren’t allowed to pick on each other which I think is OPs biggest issue. I frequently acted out due to having a brother who was constantly a bully.

Being kind to other children doesn’t excuse constant meanness and bullying to his own brother. I’m not shocked your 4yr old constantly runs off.

Hi - do they know what behaviour is expected? I know it sounds obvious but in addition to telling them to stop what they're doing explain to them what they should be doing. Also if you go home early and youve decided days after certain behaviours, they may not realise that's the reason why.
I'd explain how you want them to behave and that if they dont do that you will be going home early. e.g. when we walk to the activity, you need to walk not run and to talk nicely and politely to each other. If you run or tease each other we will go straight back to the flat. Or back home!! Good luck 👍

Back in the mid 90s my DH had to look after my girl s during the summer - he had longer off than I did. I came home at 3 pm to take over.

My girls were usually reasonably well behaved, we could add their same aged cousins into the mix and still have no problems. As they have grown I have thought about how easy it was - and realize that youngest always gets on with people. She never argued with her friends even when they were in secondary school. Eldest was assertive so even though she was only older by 18 months she guided them both. So I was lucky.

That is the context - the point of my post is that one morning at the start of the holidays I had a call from them in tears. Their father had smashed the new Fox and the Hound video cassette. He was reading in the next room and they were arguing over whether to play it or not. He was fed up with the fuss. I was horrified- it was£16.99. The fact that I remember the title and cost shows how important it was. We had only seen it once, in those days there were no alternative media to find stuff. Their summer present was gone.

They have since laughed about the incident and accept that it was a fair punishment. They also say that there was no squabbling from then on. They knew that dad meant business. I don’t think he ever said something more than once.

So the story is to say that you do have to mean what you say. Children will not hold it against you if they know that the punishment fits the crime eg ‘you run off’ results in reins or having hand held OR you don’t go out ( this needs a second parent to stay at home while the non- running away child gets to go wherever had been promised.

OP you have had some good advice, follow it. Your children have time to change before they become teenagers and give you a terrible life. You will not regret any changes that you make and your children will thank you for the peace the changes bring.

As a younger sibling I just have to thank @Saladbar for saying it so well.

Your older child is a bully, and whilst he is old enough to know he is being mean he is not old enough to stop on his own. You must stop him!
Holding down and tickling a smaller child while they cry is unconscionable.
Imagine someone doing that to you. Imagine how you would cope with having had that done to you and you might meet them again.
Now imagine having to live with that person every day and everyone knows they do it but nobody stops it, and you have nowhere else to go.