To cut holiday short

[ToddlerSleep]

I’m on a very child friendly fully catered 4-night UK break with DS 6 (nearly 7) and DS just turned 4, and I’m not coping with their behaviour. DH is a great and involved dad and couldn’t come due to work. We knew this would be the case and therefore chose this particular place as there’s so much for children to do and should in theory have worked. We are due to go home on Friday, but WIBU to go home tomorrow? Below is a snapshot of 6 hours of my day and it’s been like this from morning til night since Monday. Have I brought them up badly? Or is this just normal behaviour from them and I am being a useless parent? Please be gentle with me. It’s day 3 and I’m now in tears.

I had two more 1-night trips planned with them in the summer holidays and I have told them we are no longer doing them due to their behaviour. I am regretting doing this holiday and had I known beforehand how they would behave, there’s no way I would have done it.

It’s absolutely relentless. I put in clear boundaries and follow through with consequences eg taking away toys, time out, missing activities that we had planned, and it has no impact. They say sorry and it won’t happen again, and 5 mins later it happens again.

1. In the morning they have to be asked several times to please take their pyjamas off, please come brush your teeth, please put your socks on etc.
2. while this is taking place, DS6 won’t stop teasing DS4 despite being told several times to stop. DS4 gets upset, I have to step in.
3. DSs then refuse to put their shoes on themselves, they are too tired, it’s too hard etc. I stand my ground and in the end stand outside the flat and tell them to just get on with it.
4. We walk to breakfast (2 mins away) and DS6 is teasing DS4 again
5. We get to the dining room and there’s an argument about who will sit with whom
6. I get them their drinks and then go to get their food. When I’m back with food I find that DS4 has had an accident with his drink resulting in it spilt everywhere.
7. While eating there’s more teasing.
8. We walk back to our flat and there’s more teasing.
9. We get to our flat and there’s an argument about who will open the door.
10. We then go to an activity, more whinging about shoes, and there’s more teasing on the way. DS4 keeps running off as well to whatever takes his fancy on the way. I have to keep running after him so I don’t lose sight of him.
11. It’s now lunchtime and both say they are hungry but won’t eat the food I have for them and are whinging. It’s normally their favourite. DS4 keep running off, DS6 whinging about whatever.
12. We go to watch a show, which I know DS6 loves. DS6 constantly whinging he doesn’t want to see it and I had promised him we won’t see it (I never did), DS4 making whinging noises and I don’t know why.
13. Get to the show, whinging continues and now we also have an argument about who sits on which seat.
14. Show is over, kids had loved it, more teasing on the way back to the flat which I have to break up. DS4 keeps running off.
15. Another argument at the door about who will open it.
16. I need to repack my rucksack while DS6 keeps teasing DS4 and eventually he is lying on top of DS4 tickling him while DS4 is crying. I keep having to step in over and over again to break it up while trying to concentrate on my rucksack.
17. Off to the next activity 5 mins walk away. More whinging about them having to put on their shoes themselves. I realise when I get to the activity that I have forgotten something key to pack into my rucksack so we have to walk back.
18. DS4 was trailing behind us, then suddenly has disappeared and we can’t find him anywhere. 20 minutes of running around in tears trying to find him. Activity is now missed.
19. I want to go back to the flat, DSs just won’t listen and come with me, so it takes me 10 minutes to get them to move. DS4 again keep running off, DS6 is teasing again.
20. Once in the flat, DS4 has a 30 minute stand off to get undressed so I can shower him. DS6 also has to be asked 10 times but at least he does it.

This does not sound remote normal to me...I have 2 ds, who are exactly 3 years apart and have never experienced this. I am also a Nanny, with over 15 years experience. This is just ridiculous. You are the boss. They atenthe children. Firm boundaries. No asking them, just tell them what you expect. Absolutely no running off, ever! So dangerous. He has to hold your hand at all times if that is the case. They are taking the absolute micky out of you, and you are letting them.

Grounding and telling them they missing activities is pointless when they out of routine. Just do playground and paddling pool . If it takes 30 minutes to get changed so what? You on holiday you don't need to rush somewhere . Forget the shows.

Nothing to add except solidarity. My 4 and 6 year old boys have had me in tears tonight with behaviour that sounds so similar to your two that I wonder if our children were somehow separated at birth. It's not you. Or if it is - it's me too so you're not alone. One day we'll be glad we have such strong character filled interesting children. I hope they wake up (yours and mine!) with different heads on tomorrow ❤️

You poor thing. Get yourself home!

I remember going on my first holiday with my now DH and his children.

It was just a camping trip relatively locally for five nights. I think either the first or second night they (four of them!) were so over excited by the whole thing and spurring each other on that we had an awful evening and they wouldn't go to sleep.

Next thing, DH is hauling them out of the tent in their pj's and buckling them into the car. He drove around the country roads for about half an hour.

I was in the car stunned into silence whilst he spent the entire time telling them how poor their behaviour was, unacceptable, etc. And if it carried on, we'd be going straight home.

The kids all mumbled apologies, and we drove back to the campsite. They didn't say another word until the next day.

I'm not sure what my point is here, but perhaps, just threatening (and meaning it) to go home if the behaviour doesn't approve might work?

Anyway, we're ten years on from the camping trip, and they all remember that drive! As in, "Remember when Dad drove us around in the middle of the night and told us off?"

I was young at the time and had no kids of my own and thought DH was too harsh tbh. They were excited, so what? But I'll admit, the drive did improve their behaviour going forward.

Maybe split up and take one each for meals etc ?

There seems too many opportunities for them to think they can decide things and argue about it. Take control before they get to argue.
Eg before you get to the door.say "I'll be opening the door and ds4 can go in first because ds6 went fier yesterday"

I know same! I feel bad but I was actually laughing reading this as this is my 2 girls behaviour aged 10 and 5, not so much the shoes etc but all the teasing! Also the nonsense things like who opens the door, we have that and the garage! I do agree it is draining. I felt like I spent most of today telling eldest off!

Reduce the battles by choosing the path of least resistance on unimportant things long or helping with shoes and socks.

A bit of foresight like not leaving a 3 year old unattended with a drink will eliminate those issues.

That just leaves the teasing. You don’t seem to have a behaviour management strategy. Use one. A frank conversation with expectations and consequences is needed, whether you stay any longer or go home.

There’s really nothing exceptional in your description and it’s all manageable if you take this ockham’s razor approach to picking which battles are worth fighting. You can’t win them all, but you must win the teasing one.

I think it sounds normal and is the sort of thing that drives DH mad but I can usually overlook the majority of. I would be helping them get dressed and planning the day to minimise transitions and times we need to be somewhere for a certain time. The teasing I would be most concerned about and would try a combo of chatting to 6 year old about it, distracting etc. Is there any relaxing for you on this holiday? I always try to plan stuff they will enjoy that gives me a bit of space to do something for me and that helps as I am then in a better frame of mind to deal with the frustrations without it escalating into a battle

This sounds extremely frustrating, but it also sounds to me like everyone (you included) is over tired and over stimulated. I'd be having a day of no obligations. Get some snacks and easy food in if possible so you don't have to leave the room for every meal.

Spend the morning watching movies in your Pj's. Or let the kids do some colouring/play with their toys while you have some coffee and read a book (should be doable at their ages I think?)

Then later in the day, help the kids decide on a plan together (team work) e.g. park / soft play?

I wouldn't rush to go home immediately as it will just add more stress and I'm not sure how much better it will be at home. Good luck anyway!

It doesn't sound like two naughty children to me, it sounds like your 4 year old is being relentlessly bullied and is really angry and upset. To me this sounds like a major issue that is likely to have life long consequences, and whether you are on holiday or at home is not really relevant, this needs to be got under control

Firstly get yourself home if yu cant face a quiet day 💕

And poor 4 yr old! He's really getting it in the ear...

Sounds approx within the boundaries of normal but this would def be my kids on a "dickhead day" and everybody has their limits. You sound like you are reaching yours

What i would say is

The repeatedly stopping them with the rucksack packing wouldnt happen more than once max with me.
6 yo would be properly removed and on sofa while 4 yr at table or whatever and a firm eyeballing and stern "do not touch your brother or else! '

I would say no playing in the playground as they are "grounded" wouldn't be to go-to consequence. It just makes your life harder.

More generally one parenting tip i heard which I think is great for encouraging kids to get on is when you play with kids always put them on the same team.
so mum / dad vs kids rather than dad+ ds vs mum+ds.

I had a holiday alone with my children at similar ages and similar story 🙄 Good advice already about telling them what to expect, being decisive, possible cause (jealousy). Don’t take away their holidays later in the summer - at this age they are so young and really don’t know themselves why they behave as they do. Stronger and stronger punishments and shaming just have the opposite effect. I understand how exhausting it is though.
How about the last day just having a duvet day in the accommodation (if there’s TV), eat ice-cream, play simple games, if they need to let off steam then go out for a short time for a very defined activity? Take the pressure off yourself, lower expectations and bring down stress levels. Every family has holidays like this at some point (and a sprinkling of it on every holiday I think!), your kids are normal and you are not a bad parent.
On the plus side - my children only remember good things about that holiday where I could have torn my hair out every second 🙈😂

A nanny with very little empathy! ‘This is not my experience so it must be completely abnormal’ 🙄

We came home early from a caravan holiday for much the same reason. Children were just so grumpy. It actually felt really nice to take control of the situation.

I'm assuming you're at Butlins. If so, throw them at soft play and have a cuppa.

In all honesty, they sound exactly like my kids, six and eight, save for the running off. I mean mine actually get on really well, the nagging and cajoling just to get out of the door is insane, and they can bicker about sharing the same air!

They are old enough for you to have a serious talk to them, that you at the end of your tether, and they need to stop bickering and complaining or you're going home.

Assuming it is butlins, there's a lot of variety at the buffet, they just need to find something to eat. At this point it doesn't matter what. I'm saying to try and let it all watch over you, but I know it's easier said than done. I'm half ready to throw in the towel on some holidays and it's only the first week!!

If you do go home early though, surely you'll just be looking after annoying bickering kids at home instead, and you'll have to cook for them. So on that basis I'd stick it out.

This book "siblings without rivalry" is really helpful https://www.amazon.co.uk/Siblings-Without-Rivalry-Children-Together/dp/1853406309

Basically it says to give them control over the situation so if they're arguing over who opens the door, you ask them to find a solution themselves. It sounds too good to be true and I read it and thought it would never work but tried it out on my two and was honestly completely gobsmacked that they figured out ways to make things fair without arguing or my involvement. It doesn't work 100% but made a huge, huge difference. All the books in this series are really helpful. There's a another one about how to talk to your kids so they will listen to you.

@ hmmimnotsurewhy
“A good firm shouting is what he needs.”

It absolutely isn’t. It’s hardly conducive to a calm atmosphere, and if you don’t want your children to shout, don’t shout at them. Shouting just escalates everything, and makes the shouter angry to boot.

If DS4 keeps running away, then if you haven’t got reins, keep a firm hold on him. Let the DC know what’s going to happen - there must be things they look forward to. Point out that they enjoyed the activity that they moaned about in advance, and that there are fun things for them to do. I don’t know any children of your DS’s age who don’t like, for example, going to the park. Holidays are exhausting, but the DC will look back on them fondly, so long as their long suffering parent doesn’t lose the plot! Maybe if you are finding it so difficult, ask the kids whether they want to go home or not.

Being away from home can be really hard for children and then you and they can get into really negative cycles.
Possibly today just give them lots of hugs and possibly 'baby' them a bit to get things done. Don't nescecarily do any activities, or maybe just one. Get them doing something physical for a bit but just chill with them.
Ensure they are having decent food - nothing too sugary or processed, as this can make things worse.
Please get hold of a copy of there's no such thing as naughty/there's still no such thing as naughty by Kate Silverstone. They are game changers in understanding children's behaviour and changing ours in response to theres.

Keep breathing.........

Occasionally

Op this might be difficult to hear, but I think you are not enjoying. It at all, and it shows. You are tired, exhausted and it’s certainly mo holiday for you. When this happens everything feels too hard and too much. Getting shoes on, trudging to the next activity that no one even wants to go to. It sounds like way too much forced fun and over scheduled days. Can you not just potter with a picnic in the woods, countryside or beach. Go when you are ready rather than everything being time tabled. Cuddle the boys in bed. Relax a little.

It all sounds so joyless and just going through the motions. They are picking up on that and sniping at each other and won’t cooperate.

If you stay make things easier for yourself. A lie in, croissants at home and berries if you don’t make breakfast, some music, enthusiasm and affection.

If you dog tired then go home and dh can take them out for the day. You need a break. It is a difficult age and exhausting. Your sons sound normal to me, but when we are tired, burnt out and out of routine it can feel so much harder. You can just head home without it being a punishment - just say Daddy misses everyone and pack up. You tried and did you best and that’s more than enough 💐💐

Where is the punishment for bad behaviour? You don’t seem to parent them. Introduce a naughty corner.

You have my absolute sympathy! It’s so easy to give advice when you’re not there but I know that when you’re in the thick of it, it can be so hard to make yourself into Mary Poppins and do everything properly. Hopefully there’s something on this thread that you can incorporate into your day today (even if it’s just lowering your expectations and letting them watch TV instead of going out). I can say that it gets so much easier as they get older. Although my teens can be moody sods, holidays do actually feel like holidays nowadays rather than being somewhere between lion taming and diffusing a bomb.

Sounds like my two 7yr olds!