For thinking the details of my holiday are none of work's business

[Truffleshuffle84]

I work for a medium size company in he UK

Staff handbook says all leave must be agreed by your line manager and will be approved on the basis of business need and general staff numbers/ work coverage etc - all fine, been here for 8 years, never an issue. I'm in a team of 5 and collectively with our line manager we manage to get holidays to suit everyone etc.

Line manager left in June and we've got a new one from a different department, no issues, we all get on well.

But, I've asked for a week off in the autumn for the school holidays. LM replied asking when I was away and where was I going, I thought it was just a casual passing interest type question, replied with details of our plans.

They've now rejected my leave request because they don't think I'll be fit for work Monday returning from Tenerife on a Sunday on a flight that lands at 10.30pm (at an airport 20 mins from home).

I've not replied yet but AIBU for thinking it's up to me how I spend my annual leave and it's up to me to decide whether something is achievable whilst being ready for work the next day?

LM is a right twat

Exactly. What’s she is saying isn’t totally unreasonable in that she can’t afford for everyone to be off work should things go awry, but it’s how you phrase it.

The OP could have chosen a flight leaving at 5am on the Sunday or a late flight on the Saturday getting into the uk early hours Sunday morning which would have given her more than enough time to get back to the UK, and be in bed by 6pm on the Sunday if she wanted but if there is an issue with the airline beyond the op control and they can’t get her on the next flight until late on the Sunday the next day that’s not really something she should be getting reprimanded over or being told “ I won’t tolerate it” like the op is some kind of skiving fool or spoken to like a child.

Well, shit happens. You either make up the time or take another day's leave. OP has a 9-5 office job not a life and death role.

Jeez, that is absolutely horrendous. You have an awful manager!

That’s madness. Presumably the other 2 staff are allowed their leave request?

The funniest part about this is that whiel I can sort of understand her being annoyed if you're performing at sub par on your return, how on earth does she think she can actually make this a thing? Are you all now supposed to provide confirmation of bed times? Guarantee you won't drink too much on a thursday night and not be at your best on Friday? Always always take the earlier train in case your regular train is delayed?

it's just so weirdly irrational.

Yes good idea but also people like that may ask to see OPs flight ticket 😱😬

I’ve never heard anything so ridiculous.
I’d be inclined to go back and say oh did I say Sunday. I meant Saturday!
Then phone in sick on the Monday too.

Are you tempted to take this to HR?

I agree with the posts above. She's behaving as though you are unprofessional and untrustworthy. She could be an example of the Peter Principle, emotionally immature or just being shifted around once complaints from her team reach an intolerable level. Either way it may be worth documenting even minor issues as they arise (as you've done here) and minimise verbal conversations with her. This type can go on the attack when they perceive they're under threat, and there may be background HR involvement that you're not aware of.

I hope you enjoy your holiday.

Call her bluff.

Launch a grievance on her 24hrs before you leave on your vacation.

Thats the least you should be doing to bring this micromanager crashing down to earth.

If thats what she wrote in her email (I dont doubt you), then she really is stupid.

That message is threatening, borders on disrepute and misconduct and behaviours in and of itself.

I bet my last dollar that your employer has NO policy that says anything like your manager did about your percentage/well being on returning from leave - whether thats overseas or not.

Seriously - grievance on her.

Yes, I’d do this.

My manager seen me online on WhatsApp around midnight when I was due in at 6am and pulled me up about it the next day 😂 I just laughed at him

Dont lie to your job.
The lie is actionionable misconduct where a polite PFO would not be.

The LM has no right to ask (demand) personal data about the annual leave.

And no right to direct her actions during the period so HR should swiftly educate the LM if anything like that was asked.

Snotty bitch

And they have to compensate you for losses

It’s none of their business unless you are going to drip feed that you are a national express long distance coach driver starting your shift at 6am! Standard office job is fine. You should be able to get adequate sleep

plus next time take the week off. Say you haven’t booked a location yet as waiting for a cheap last minute deal - if she asked what times flights are

or say planning to do a UK holiday but later as weather rubbish went abroad for sun etc

none of it lies

and yes update us after your holiday

I'm a teacher and I wouldn't speak to a student like that. Okay maybe if they've got a long history of messing about, but otherwise no way would I be that aggressive. Nobody reacts well to being unnecessarily bossed around and penalised for something another team/student did.

Frankly, aside from submitting a leave request, the OP has fuck all obligation to say anything else to her cunty manager.

Silence is key.

Booking time off
The general notice period for taking leave is at least twice as long as the amount of leave a worker wants to take, plus 1 day. For example, a worker would give 3 days’ notice for 1 day’s leave.
An employer can refuse a leave request or cancel leave but they must give as much notice as the amount of leave requested, plus 1 day. For example, an employer would give 11 days’ notice if the worker asked for 10 days’ leave.
If the contract says something different about the notice a worker or employer should give, what’s in the contract will apply.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/booking-time-off

I've not seen anything about why the employer can cancel the leave - nothing about having to be operational reasons? Happy to be corrected, as I can miss things.

ACAS states "An employer should have a good business reason to refuse or cancel a holiday request." but that's also a little woolly?

I won't tolerate any half efforts because you're tired

Fucking hell - first time manager???

yeah that's terrible... its almost creating a character for you as someone who just dials it in because she's always tired.

All this over a leave request. I think you should raise it with someone because she's attributing behaviour to you , in advance, not on the basis of your actual behaviour and performance but due to her previous experience of the bunch of lazy slackers (in her opinion) that she worked with before.

It comes across as her having judged you as the kind of person she'd expect to skive and blame the late flight and that she'd decided that you needed this warning to be spelt out to you, to ensure you didn't do that..
Whereas in fact, she has no basis to believe that.

And she's created a paper trail.

I'd let a more senior manager who knows you, know about this informally and keep a very close eye.

Has anyone else in your team had this botheration?

I agree.
I cannot imagine any normal HR being anything other than appalled at this response.

Her historical experiences are not a stick to beat other employees with.

I would be lodging a grievance or at the very least want her response on file with HR for future reference and my disquiet noted at the hostile threatening tone.

I think it is extremely hostile and threatening.
It has legitimate upheld grievance written all over it.

She's a cheeky bitch.

I didn't phone in sick, but I rang in and said I wasn't working as I was tired as one of their residents had kept me up all night causing noise. My manager did not argue with me.

Have you had your holiday yet @Truffleshuffle84 ?