For thinking the details of my holiday are none of work's business

[Truffleshuffle84]

I work for a medium size company in he UK

Staff handbook says all leave must be agreed by your line manager and will be approved on the basis of business need and general staff numbers/ work coverage etc - all fine, been here for 8 years, never an issue. I'm in a team of 5 and collectively with our line manager we manage to get holidays to suit everyone etc.

Line manager left in June and we've got a new one from a different department, no issues, we all get on well.

But, I've asked for a week off in the autumn for the school holidays. LM replied asking when I was away and where was I going, I thought it was just a casual passing interest type question, replied with details of our plans.

They've now rejected my leave request because they don't think I'll be fit for work Monday returning from Tenerife on a Sunday on a flight that lands at 10.30pm (at an airport 20 mins from home).

I've not replied yet but AIBU for thinking it's up to me how I spend my annual leave and it's up to me to decide whether something is achievable whilst being ready for work the next day?

I’m petty and would be asking what time the LM thought was too late to arrive back.

You wouldn’t be the first person to stay out late and go to work the next morning.

This would make me start looking at other jobs too.

What are you going to do if the plane back is delayed?

I’d be leaving, absolutely fuck that. She’d hate me 😂. I woke two jobs, job 2 finishes at midnight.

Are there any potential Health & Safety issues eg Driving etc?

Even if there are (and I don't think so as she said it was office work), it's OP's job to ensure she's fit for work. It's not the employer's job to monitor what she does in her spare time.

Wow, new LM is cheeky af.

Definitely raise with HR if she refuses again OP.

@LillyPJ No, but I had to bring in HR. Me going to China went against his Republican principles. We both worked in the UK!

@HotCrossBunplease China. He's American and a complete bell end.

I have been to North Korea, but not on that trip! His head would have exploded.

Cuba ???
😉

Wow, your LM sounds like a nightmare. Since when does she decide what time you need to get to sleep?! You could be in bed before 12, plenty of people don't go to sleep before midnight. I'm not one of them but even I would be fine with a couple hours sleep less for one night. Ridiculous!

Outrageous! I’ve never heard anything like it in my life. I’d be tempted to say “I have already booked this week, therefore I am informing you that I will be taking leave from date-date. I will be returning to work on date.”
Cheeky bastards!!

outrageous! I’m on HRT and sleep really badly. Worse than if I’d just got off a flight from the Canaries at 10.30 pm the night before!
I still function (well) in my role but seriously it’s none of my employers business unless my performance suffers.

Your LM is batshit but why on earth did you go into so much detail? Next time say “we’re off to Tenerife for a week, can’t bloody wait”.

This is exactly what I was thinking. In fact I sleep better after a flight because I’ve been worn out.

This idiotic LM is clearly either a man or not perimenopausal or menopausal age yet, because if they are so concerned about what time people get to sleep and not being fit to carry out their duties the next working day then they better not employ any women over 40 and they should start sacking all that hit menopause because I can’t tell you how many sleepless nights I’ve had simply because my body is doing its perimenopausal thing ( and I don’t even have too bad symptoms compared to most)

I would in all seriousness actually ask the LM and HR what they plan on doing to get around “the interest of the business” when I or women in general in this stage of their life have a lack of sleep?

Doesn’t matter if it’s because of a natural biological process, no sleep is no sleep so would also like clarification on if they feel a woman at this stage in life with those symptoms are no longer able to carry out her role.

I’d say I’ll be more unfit for work if I don’t have a holiday! They’re your employer, not your mother ffs

I totally agree with this!!! Doctors, surgeons and pilots etc are well able to manage their fatigue. That’s what they are paid for.

The best response was to email HR and ask for their policy on this as you are booking g your holiday and include the line manager. All the best x

Your LM’s response was very patronising. Unless there’s some big back story around how you’ve been late / not turned up for work under similar circumstances in the past.

At the very most (and even then, I’d think it was a bit much) she could have said “it’s a late return flight, OP, please make sure you’re in on the Monday as I can’t extend your leave” whilst approving your request.

This is crazy- do they dictate what you do on a regular Sunday night? Employee bedtimes? Hope you get it sorted.

What are your work policies on being allowed out on a Sunday? I mean are you allowed to go to a concert, movie drinks with friends etc all could result in a late night, delayed transport and not being 100% for work. Are you allowed to have a restless night due to children being awake or ill? Not going to be 100% for work there either and all ridiculous reasons to not be in work the following day. I think it's called life, are you allowed one? Would love to know HRs response, maybe it's time to leave or join a union. Best of luck and don't let them win.

Absolute madness!!!!! So do they have NO staff who have sleep conditions, no staff with babies/toddlers/children who disturb sleep??? Talk about power gone to their head. No wonder people work to rule if this is the management approach of some. Do not accept this. Make others aware of this person's actions so they also dont fall foul. I do also receive very detailed leave requests.... almost like I ought to be persuaded to grant leave. Its a shame that some managers have generated that view. They are ENTITLED to it. Persuasion should not be common place - should be an exception.

That they monitor all staff’s Sunday activities for?

Your new LM sounds like she is on a power trip. I've flown back from the far East completely jet lagged and i managed to work fine the next day. Also by her reasoning business travellers who fly all over the world can't perform their work when they land? Lots of people have to close mega deals after landing from a long flight.

Well done OP.
Batshit behaviour that is best noted as you have done.
I doubt this is the last bullshit you will have from this boss, so be very wary going forward.

Lol. Your line manager would have a field day with my sleep patterns. Single mum with ND child who doesn't sleep. 11pm bedtime is fine, your manager sounds controlling.

Wow. In pre-pandemic days my colleague used to take long haul flights arriving early on a Monday morning and come straight to the office from Heathrow - what would this manager have thought of that!