For thinking the details of my holiday are none of work's business

[Truffleshuffle84]

I work for a medium size company in he UK

Staff handbook says all leave must be agreed by your line manager and will be approved on the basis of business need and general staff numbers/ work coverage etc - all fine, been here for 8 years, never an issue. I'm in a team of 5 and collectively with our line manager we manage to get holidays to suit everyone etc.

Line manager left in June and we've got a new one from a different department, no issues, we all get on well.

But, I've asked for a week off in the autumn for the school holidays. LM replied asking when I was away and where was I going, I thought it was just a casual passing interest type question, replied with details of our plans.

They've now rejected my leave request because they don't think I'll be fit for work Monday returning from Tenerife on a Sunday on a flight that lands at 10.30pm (at an airport 20 mins from home).

I've not replied yet but AIBU for thinking it's up to me how I spend my annual leave and it's up to me to decide whether something is achievable whilst being ready for work the next day?

Totally ridiculous. Absolutely none of their business. Can you tell them you’ve changed the flight and now arrive back on Friday.

Or tell them you’re going to Skegness instead???

Bonkers.

Interestingly:

1. You do not have to disclose what your plans are for whilst your on annual leave;
2. They cannot discipline you if you refuse to tell them your plans for annual leave;
3. They can discipline you if you lie about what you're doing on annual leave.

I think she's absolutely ridiculous! What does your policy say about having leave approved? What's the process? Can you appeal? Can you complain? Can you re-request? Do they have to give a reason for refusal? Are there only a certain number of reasons they can refuse?

I believe leave can only be refused if:

1. You've not followed policy in requesting it;
2. You have no leave remaining or insufficient leave remaining;
3. An operational reason (i.e. too many people off at once) applies.

Can you afford to put in a request for unpaid parental leave instead? It's much, much, much harder for them to refuse it.

Tell them you don’t normally go to bed until 11.30pm so you’ll be fine 😝

Jokes aside, they’re being crazy. Is the holiday all paid for?

WHAT?!! Absolutely none of their business, and they have no right to judge whether you’ll be fit for work. I’m astonished they’ve given that as a reason to reject the request. Utterly bizarre. Are you supposed to just cancel your week in Tenerife then?

I would go directly to their line manager and after that to HR and my union (if you are a member)

But I’m pretty sure the senior manager will sort it out. You’ve got to wonder where on earth the new LM worked before that they thought that was reasonable?

Oh. Interesting. I wonder what gave her the inkling to ask the question. Landing at 10:30pm and back to work next morning isn't likely to be optimum, but I don't think she gets to say how much sleep you need.

Dear LM,
i will be fit for work.
I would like you to reconsider. If you still do not want to approve this vacation request for the reason you stated, I will refer to (HR/your second line manager).
Regards,
TruffleShuffle

Well...you're not supposed to book it until the leave is approved...so yes, if leave is declined, you'd have to cancel.

Very stupid if LM to give this as the reason though.

I would email your HR, cc’ing in your line manager, explain line manager has declined your leave request due to your return flight at 10:30pm the night before is too late, and ask how many hours before your Monday shift/start time you need to be back in the country as you are moving your flights and need to know what the company policy is.

Why did you go into such forensic detail?! I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have quizzed you on when your flight lands.

Tell her you've booked an earlier flight and know for future that you cannot trust her.

It's booked but only with a £60 pp deposit

The staff policy says annual leave must be approved by your LM and it says the annual leave may be rejected if there's a business need or staffing issue (or words to that effect). It's all a bit wooly.

I've checked with my colleagues as we always do before any of us request and there's no staffing issue for the week I'd like off.

LM replied to my request with:

"in accordance with the company policy there's a business need for you to be at work on the Monday and I don't believe you will be at full fitness to work after landing at 2230. Bearing in mind that assuming the flight isn't delayed, you'll likely be home much later than this, as such I unfortunately need to reject this leave request. Additionally I've reviewed the leave requests for the following week and we'll have 2 people from the team off for that week so you can't extend your leave to cover the Monday after your planned return. Please reconsider your travel plans and resubmit, I'm happy to approve this week off with different return times."

I'll take it up with HR on Monday.

Remember that HR work for them. Are you in a union? You should probably think about it.

Presumably they are now breathlysing staff in the morning, in case they had a rowdy night before ?

No ?

Then they either start or fuck off.

It was a casual discussion

Hi Truffle, a week in autumn sounds good, where are you off to and when are you flying back?

Hi LM, yeah. Nice to get away when the weather turns here, we're off to Tenerife for a week, got a good deal on a Sunday to Sunday week, flights out are good but flight back are a bit late, think we leave at 630 and land at 1030pm

I’m on holiday atm and exactly the same point was made to me. We will land back mid week at around 11pm, hand baggage only and we are 20 mins max from the airport. My LM raised that if the flight is delayed I may be tired next day, but it’s out of concern not control and has told me to start when I’m ready the next day (WFH) without penalty. That’s sensible management.

this is absolutely batshit to me! You are the only person who can decide if you will be fit to work. Will you be tired? Maybe. Will you still be able to do your job? According to you, yes. I would resubmit the request stating you believe you will be fit to work on the Monday.

Or just lie and say you’re now booked on an earlier flight. People like that don’t deserve the truth.

That's bonkers. If you mentioned you'd be going out on Sunday night and wouldn't be home till gone midnight, would she tell you you couldn't go?

How many late night, and how much tiredness do we experience as mothers anyway! What a load

That is absolutely crazy. Do work decide your bedtime too?

I would raise with HR too.

Oh wow. I’ve worked (just an office job admittedly) getting in to the airport at 5am after flying FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. Can help to adjust to the time zone change and I’m generally feeling a bit wired at that point anyway.

And annual leave days are precious.

Just lie and say you’ve booked an earlier flight - how will she know?

Explain to line manager that you go on a bender every Sunday in the UK and do a pub quiz and a stagger home with a kebab and rarely make it home before midnight.

explain the flight etc will see you home in a much better condition and still
not impact work demands or staffing levels.

Oh HR are going to have a fun time with your line manager!!!

Talk about overstepping.