For thinking the details of my holiday are none of work's business

[Truffleshuffle84]

I work for a medium size company in he UK

Staff handbook says all leave must be agreed by your line manager and will be approved on the basis of business need and general staff numbers/ work coverage etc - all fine, been here for 8 years, never an issue. I'm in a team of 5 and collectively with our line manager we manage to get holidays to suit everyone etc.

Line manager left in June and we've got a new one from a different department, no issues, we all get on well.

But, I've asked for a week off in the autumn for the school holidays. LM replied asking when I was away and where was I going, I thought it was just a casual passing interest type question, replied with details of our plans.

They've now rejected my leave request because they don't think I'll be fit for work Monday returning from Tenerife on a Sunday on a flight that lands at 10.30pm (at an airport 20 mins from home).

I've not replied yet but AIBU for thinking it's up to me how I spend my annual leave and it's up to me to decide whether something is achievable whilst being ready for work the next day?

Brilliant response to send OP. Please come back and update. I am disproportionately invested in this!

can you change your holiday to the Saturday. Or email back and agree with her 🤣 say you hadn’t thought about that, thankyou you for bringing it to your attention and you will change your holiday date to the Saturday- but don’t obviously 🤣

I really wouldn't do this. 1) Lying could get her into trouble and 2) it would be pandering to the LM and let them think it's ok to micromanage OP's free time.

I think another poster's suggestion of messaging HR or LM' superior asking for 'clarification' might be the way to go. Or push back directly like with OP's planned email response.

Don't let the LM get away with it, OP. It could easily turn into a slippery slope and next thing you know they're lecturing you on your sleep patterns and weekend plans.

Are you part of a union? It might be a good idea to join one of you'll be working with this person long term.

Bonkers. Like PP, I’ve also gone straight to work from the airport after an overnight flight. Granted that’s probably not ideal… but the idea that an 11pm/midnight sort of bedtime would be a problem is just silly

Wow, what a massive overstep (assuming you’ve never been at work complaining you’re hungry because you haven’t eaten breakfast).

Heh. I'm coming back on a sleeper train and going back into the office for 9am after my trip. Tell them to get stuffed.

This is mad! Talking about being "fit for work" when I was a junior doctor I regularly worked Friday 9am to Monday 9am on call, and then god help you if you weren't at the consultant's ward round at 10am Monday, and completely on the ball (yes I know they can't do that now!).

Hiw can they police your bedtime? What if you were reading a riveting book/felt ill/child had a nightmare etcetc and didn't get to sleep till 3am? Do you get the day off?

Yes a good reply

Don't beat yourself up OP, I don't think anyone would have guessed their LM would respond this way to a casual chat about their holidays plans, unless they were in a safety-critical role where such rules would be part of their employment contract. I'm astonished that your LM thinks this is an acceptable reason for turning down your leave request and that she actually put that reason in writing. I'm certain HR will set her straight. Have a great weekend and please let us know the outcome next week. 😊

Call your line manager on Monday morning and tell them that you went to bed after midnight and just needed to check with them if you were tired and be able to make it into work.

When their answer is - I can't make that decision for you / only you will know if your tired / what do you think... tell them to now apply that thinking to your annual leave and approve it.

What a tosser your LM is 🙄

To be fair, if there were issues with that flight, you may well end up not getting back to the UK in time for work on Monday, which would be extremely embarrassing for you if you make a fuss about their request for you to reconsider your plans before they agree to your holiday. I expect the line manager has past experience of people trying to maximise their holiday and as a result being off work for a day longer than requested, so are testing to see if they can persuade you to reduce the length of your break by a day, or to fly on. Saturday-Saturday, instead (highly unlikely that you can!).

I have done after 6 hour drive arriving home at 7.00am gone into the office at 9.00am

Ps my experience, working in a school, is that it’s the kids that are too tired for school, so the parents have a day off babysitting exhausted children who are unfit for school - or the parents drop clearly unhappy, tired, ill-looking children off at school and then have to come and collect their children early, because they were crying and falling asleep at their desks, so I wouldn’t advise taking the risk if it is also school the next day and your children are quite young, unless you have someone else to look after your children for you at home on the Monday.

How many late flights are there, or even large passport check delays? Even if you take the Ryanair claims about timekeeping as doubtful.

I had a LM like this although she was also a bully and I ended up off sick for 7 months because of her. She would ask what I was doing and then refuse leave because the work wasn't completed (I was drafting an entire strategy that eventually took me and 3 others 5 years to clear) or she didn't think the holiday was any good or I couldn't just let people know I was away because I had to provide a service at all times. Mad old bitch.

No matter what time you go to bed you are an adult. I've had friends come to work directly from the airport and they delivered.

That’s so weird. You could be going to a birthday party or anything on a work night. It’s none of their business unless you don’t arrive for work or are obviously hung over or something.

Boom! Many thanks. This is why we all come on here for the variety of life.

This.

leaves no doubt you’re taking boss seriously and trying to comply, but makes hr aware what’s going on and there’s no policy for boss to justify such batshit crazy behaviour

jeez theyd have to fire everyone who is a parent of an under 3, pregnant, menopausal, sleep disorders etc if they start saying they can’t work if not a full 8 hours sleep 🤦🏼‍♀️

My (former) LM tried to interfere with my leave request because he "objected ethically" to our destination. He was an idiot.

Wow! I'm trusting he didn't succeed!

Oh my goodness. Were you going to Dubai or North Korea? 😀

OP @Truffleshuffle84 i agree with watching your back here - LM will be watching you like a hawk on that Monday. She’ll find any excuse to use slower productivity as she sounds like a micro manager (if it’s a he I apologise - either way LM sounds like a dick). Will probably take a few hours to catch up on emails anyway so it’s likely to be a different day to usual.

My kids have been known to land at Heathrow at 6 a.m.and to be in the office at 9 a.m. the same day.... occasionally after a long haul flight.
My collegue is a lone parent and her 4 year old has medical issues that mean she has to wake up to check on him two or three times a night : I marvel that she manages to drag herself in at 8:30 and do a full day's work, but she does.
As a PP said, providing you are not doing brain surgery that Monday morning you should be fine and it's none of her business.

That's so totally out of order OP, I would be spitting nails if I was you.
As an adult I'm sure you're perfectly capable of working out whether or not you're fit for work based on those flight times. I'm glad my LM has more common sense and wouldn't even ask questions like this. 😎I think that's overreach by your LM.

are you a train driver / airline pilot / other type of job which has a minimum ‘rest’ requirement ? ???