For thinking the details of my holiday are none of work's business

[Truffleshuffle84]

I work for a medium size company in he UK

Staff handbook says all leave must be agreed by your line manager and will be approved on the basis of business need and general staff numbers/ work coverage etc - all fine, been here for 8 years, never an issue. I'm in a team of 5 and collectively with our line manager we manage to get holidays to suit everyone etc.

Line manager left in June and we've got a new one from a different department, no issues, we all get on well.

But, I've asked for a week off in the autumn for the school holidays. LM replied asking when I was away and where was I going, I thought it was just a casual passing interest type question, replied with details of our plans.

They've now rejected my leave request because they don't think I'll be fit for work Monday returning from Tenerife on a Sunday on a flight that lands at 10.30pm (at an airport 20 mins from home).

I've not replied yet but AIBU for thinking it's up to me how I spend my annual leave and it's up to me to decide whether something is achievable whilst being ready for work the next day?

If it is not approved again, I would asking the LM for a copy of the company’s policy on sleep requirements before work and (assuming there is one) what the LM does to ensure people are not violating it by having sex, tending to children with disturbed nights, suffering from insomnia, attending concerts or nightclubs or staying up late to watch tv or game.

Fab info, @ConfusedSloth !!

This!

You can be dosed up to the eyeballs on caffeine after landing at 3am if you chose to, as long as you show up and do your job!

You shouldn’t have to be unable to share details, it’s lovely that you’re an open honest person. I’d be very concerned about the level of micromanagement and over stepping boundaries that new LM is doing here.

We can be knackered for so many reasons but it’s up to us to manage like responsible adults.

I’d flag to HR anyway as a concern about LM’s attitude. Maybe get your leave sorted first though!!

Defo a learning curve with this LM, and what a different flavour it must have left. That’s such a shame.

Let us know what happens!

By the LM's logic, anyone with insomnia or who's woken up frequently by a small child etc should call in sick? As they clearly aren't fit for work.

The fact the dingbat LM even raised this like it’s normal, sounds like the type of twit that probably thinks anyone with children, medical needs or anything that could effect them getting less than 8 hours sleep should be shot because they are unfit for employment 🙄

Sorry I voted wrongly as I was so outraged on behalf of the op! What a massive over reach by your employer!!

I'd immediately be launching a grievance on said incompetent manager.

Whether you are fit for work on Monday is not a decision she gets to unilaterally make. She is not a medical expert and cannot gauge how you will feel.

Watching as I'm interested to see the response. I have a similar issue. Good luck 👍

Really 😳 Is this a thing now?

I hope I never come across such people because I’m pretty private anyway, I don’t particularly like people knowing any part of my personal life at the best of times so I would definitely not be telling anyone what I want to do with my annual leave, people can piss right off with that one as I don’t owe anyone that explanation and I would literally write “personal” if they asked.. the bloody cheek of people these days.

From the LM's (rather pompous) wording I'd say they're worried about the flight being delayed. Couple of hours' delay, picking up luggage and queuing for passport control, could mean home in the small hours and a missed day's work on Monday. But it's still none of the LM's business!

My job never had an issue putting me on a 0600 flight for a meeting at 0900, having me return the same day and then expecting me to be in work for 09:00 the following day...

But you could break a leg on holiday, anything can happen, based on her reasoning they can find a reason to not allow you ever holiday.

Batshit stuff.
Definitely within the realms of raising a grievance.

Are you saying that people should cut short their holiday abroad to come back and wait around at home the day before they go back to work just in case a flight is delayed? Are you the bonkers line manager?

“Sorry Boss, I’m not fit to come into work today. I streamed Love Island Aftersun last night.”

Be a bit tired? Hardly the end of the world is it. No one is at their 100% best every day.

Update.

I sent my reply back (see earlier post from me with the planned text - I sent the same).

Reply from LM:

Truffle,

I've approved it on the system, if you are satisfied then that's your responsibility to manage.

Please note I've had significant historic issues with people's work performance on return from holiday in other teams including last minute surprise absences so I just want to be clear on my expectations of you on return that it's a full as normal working day, you are expected to be in work at 9am and work as any other day. I won't tolerate any half efforts because you're tired

LM

She's only been my LM for a couple of months, I thought everyone was getting on well but in hindsight this is the first time I've had to really interact with her on stuff like this. There's no issue with my work or in fact anyone in our team, it's clear she's had issues with previous teams etc and seems to be now overreacting here.

I've got my leave approved which is the main goal but I must admit this has annoyed me now.

Wow. Your LM is a dickhead.

What a bellend, I'd definitely be speaking to HR about that response!

Wow, what a bitch.
You've learned that she's not your friend and in future interactions should be strictly professional and she gets no information about your personal.life.

What an absolute petty minded arse she is! Information diet from now on. She only gets to know what she needs to know and not a thing more.

My flight home was delayed meaning I had to travel the next morning and couldn't make it in until lunchtime, I informed my LM first thing, the response was "sorry to hear that, what an annoying end to your trip, just make up the time this week, see you soon".

Well at least you know that your LM is a dick and you can keep them at arm’s length.

God she’s a right tool. I’d be looking for another job, no way could I have any respect for her now.

Ok, so if the plane is delayed, you’re expected to run home I assume? And fast!!

She sounds odious!

That response is outrageous. If you did return from leave and there were issues then fair enough for her to raise for future reference but her response now is very unreasonable.

It feels almost bullying language and I'd be tempted to raise with HR. If that will cause you more problems right now, then I'd be noting any further issues ready to escalate when necessary., especially as it sounds like she'll be monitoring you closely from the minute you walk in/log-in on your return.

There is an implicit threat in her email.

Her previous issues with other teams is fxxk all to do with you.

I definitely think this is now a HR issue.
I would want her emails on file and it noted her implicit threat has made you feel "unsafe" in your working environment.

After 8 years with the company I am very upset to receive such correspondence which feels both personal, vindictive and without basis.

Penalising me and trying to stop my booked holidays because of her experiences with other teams, has created a toxic unsafe environment and I feel victimised/ bullied by her history with other teams.
This is completely unacceptable.

I would be sending something like the above.
This won't be the last time that twat tries to bully you. You need it all layed out and on record.