to think people with nice parents have no clue what toxic parents are like?

[pppaper]

I keep seeing people say things like “I wish I still had my mum or dad around” or “You’ll regret it when they’re gone” and honestly it really gets to me. It’s said like it is a set truth. Like if you don’t feel that way about your parents there’s something wrong with you.

But some of us didn’t get loving supportive parents. Some of us got toxic manipulative ones who made our lives miserable and who we’re still trying to recover from. I get that people who had decent relationships with their parents feel that loss and I’m not saying they shouldn’t. But it’s frustrating when they assume everyone had the same experience.

It feels like people with nice parents just can’t imagine anything else. It’s always family is everything and you’ll regret cutting them off and never any space to say actually no this person hurt me over and over and I have every right to protect myself.

I won’t miss them when they’re gone. Maybe I already spent years grieving the parents I never had.

Thank you, I couldn’t change it from the app. I had to go through the browser

@PrincessJasmine1 I do take your point about judging parenting of the past by today's very different standards and ideas, in a general sense. However, I knew from being a young child that something was very off and felt myself going down and down into despair and anxiety over the years, not able to leave the situation. It wasn't something I layered on retrospectively, although I guess I got more vocabulary to discuss it in more recent years. Maybe it was the way most people parented at the time, I'm not sure, and maybe people were more pressured into having children then who wouldn't have chosen to if it really felt like a choice - but the damage is real and I'm still trying to untangle it. Anyway, I guess the main point is that it's not helpful to tell people how to feel about a situation when it's different to your own experience (not saying you are doing that at all - you are not! Just realised I'm straying from the actual main point of the thread.)

I’m in a similar boat. He worships the ground she walks on but part of me thinks it’s Stockholm syndrome plus he’s invested nearly 50 years into the marriage so there’s that. The only reason I’ve not gone NC after all the emotional fuckery is bc they moved to a location (when I was pregnant with my first child) that is a nice place to visit on holiday. Yeah I’m a hypocritical user in this regard. I realise this is morally negligible to use their place for ‘free’ holidays (we buy all the food and cook for everyone, pay for outings and they never offer to watch the kids, so it isn’t as bad as it could be) but I’ve taken the view that it’s a small compensation for the decades of emotional abuse that they will not acknowledge now bc they realise how badly they treated me.

If my kids didn’t love going so much, we wouldn’t, bc I would happily never see my mother again ever. I know we could hire a different accommodation etc but there are other reasons why this location is more beneficial for my children that I wont go into here. I bite my tongue when we’re there bc we are guests in their home and it’s a joy to see my kids really happy there, but I wish she wasn’t a narcissistic prick who has never had to take account of her actions and the damage they’ve caused.

You are not being unreasonable at all.

In honesty, I don’t understand what any kind of good family of origin relationship looks like. I simply don’t understand when people talk about their sister being their best friend or their amazing dad

Assume it works in reverse too. It’s tricky though in my friend group those with the super amazing parents of sadly lost them early. They have no comprehension when I reference any difficulties and they look a bit sad and confused when I don’t describe meeting with family of origin with joy and excitement, if I expressed concern about how Christmas might go, et cetera.

So I tend to say nothing, And so nobody gets it. But that’s just how it’s always been. Nobody getting it not really.

That’s okay, I accept and understand that

If 'no one's perfect', then why were our parents so vicious and punishing to us when we weren't 'perfect'?

(And as kids! Little kids! Who it should have been their job to gently teach and guide and love unconditionally!)

I remember going round to my little friends' houses and being awed that 'their parents really seem to like them!' I didn't know what amazing thing they could have done to 'earn' that, because my parents were unpleasable...

YANBU My siblings were always obnoxious, abusive (not just to me, to their peers/partners etc) and narcissistic. It's incredibly frustrating when people can't get their heads around the fact that what I have experienced is not just a bit of sibling rivalry/childhood teasing etc. I avoid mentioning that they exist as far as possible because I know that if I say that I have/had siblings that I don't want to see I am always told some version of 'blood's thicker than water', 'everyone's grown up now, don't you want to build bridges', 'you'll regret it if they die and you missed a chance to see them' (spoiler, one of them did, I don't regret my decision to cut contact).
For me, and I suspect the same probably applies to those with toxic parents, I think part of the reason that I feel so irritated by this is that for years I was told by my family that I was being difficult/causing trouble/upsetting the rest of the family if I complained about my siblings behaviour. I was encouraged to think that all families were like mine and I was just over-reacting and/or told that I was lying about how they behaved. I refuse to listen to more of the same now that I have the choice and the strength to take myself out of the situation.

It’s not the making mistakes that’s the issue - it’s the utter denial that comes Fri toxic parents. The need to make themselves the ooor helpless victims of terrible awful ungrateful misters of ‘now adult) children.

id have been more than willing to accept even the smallest of apologies when my mother and father held me hostage on ther home demanding me to talk about my childhood. I begged not to and asked just to be friends a move on. Not good enough. I was forced to speak - as when I did, with tears streaming down my face, I was then told where the door was - with my newborn and SEN 8 year old in tow

Lacking the emotional maturity to al least own your behaviour and the impact on children who had no choice but to internalise that as some sort of failing in ther part as a child is inexcusable.

Parenting is hard and nobody gets it 100 percent right. But I think there’s a real difference between acknowledging that and using it to excuse or downplay the harm some parents caused.

Saying “they loved me in their own way” can be really confusing when their actions didn’t feel like love at all. For a lot of us, the way our parents showed love was mixed up with control, guilt, emotional neglect, or worse. Love without care, respect, or safety is not enough. Recognising that doesn’t mean we’re being unfair or holding modern standards against them, It means we are allowed to name what hurt us.

Yes, times have changed. But basic things like listening to your child, not shaming them, or not using fear to control them. This isn't anything new. They are just things that often were not valued in certain families or cultures. That does not mean we should pretend they did not matter.

Becoming a parent can definitely bring some perspective, but it can also highlight just how much damage was done because you start to realise how much better things could have been. Compassion is important, but so is honesty. It’s not about expecting perfection. It’s about not gaslighting ourselves into minimising real pain just because “they meant well.” Sometimes they did, and sometimes they didn’t.

I’ve got an amazing Mum, she’s never ever been anything but lovely, kind and caring. She’s even funny and great company too. I know I am so, so lucky and I know that having her has a Mum has made the rest of my life so much easier. I don’t understand why that would make me not able to understand that some parents have terrible parents. I’d never dream of being anything but compassionate to someone who was struggling with an awful parent. Surely it’s the same with lots of other difficult situations such as if someone is extremely ill or in a massively stressful job. Just because I haven’t personally experienced it doesn’t mean I can’t feel deeply sorry for those that do.

I agree OP. I am one of those naive people who is often shocked by what I read. My family is complicated and was controlling, so I left home young and always envied people who had supportive laid back parents. But we got along fine once i keep a little distance and although they have different world views than I do, they absolutely loved and adored me, particularly as a young child. Many friends say similar, relationships are tricky but everyone makes the effort. I know of people who lived with MH issues or addictions etc but I genuinely didn't know people could be unloved or emotionally abused as a child in the way I've read here. I can't imagine the underlying stress you carry with you through adult life.

Actually not at all you have taken it that way. It not an emotional statement, it's a factual one, I literally don't know anyone with ideal parents, stories of toxicity abound if we are using some of the anecdotal definitions on this thread. Stop assuming offence where there is none. Arsehole parents that are abusive if course exist, you'd have to be pretty sheltered to think otherwise!

Don't tell me what I'm thinking or what I'm trying to argue.

I'm not sure where Op is getting this from. I have wonderful parents and thank my lucky stars everyday. I can see there is plenty of shitty and unbelievably cruel parenting just by turning on the news so why would I ever advise anyone against cutting off their parents?

I’m afraid you came across a simply Sayinv tgat people are imperfect’ and a way of legitimising and that children should just accept ig because - peopld = imperfect. When you had way way way shittier than ‘imperfect’ it grates. Consider yourself lucking that you didn’t and are the position to simple say ‘peopld are imperfect’

Certainly Mother's Day card manufacturers struggle with the concept. Trying to find one that says something banal/factual on it without gushing with 'the best mum!' is an annual pita.

I do talk to a friend regularly about family due to this situation - she struggles to understand why her bf's family are just not interested in their lives the way her family are. It's just different, but weirdly it's easy to understand her situation, but she struggles to understand his.

This makes me sad. You deserved the unconditional love they cruelly denied you.

Yes, I agree. I tend not to talk about my parents if I can help it.
They were both incredibly selfish and interested only in their own lives and feelings.
I did see my dad before he died. Weirdly, I’m back in contact with my stepmum who is wonderful.
I did try to rebuild a relationship with my mother but am back to NC.
I try and do my best for my kids, they know they are loved, have a stable happy home and the things they need in life.
I’m far from a perfect parent but their happiness and security is my top priority.
I’m sorry for everyone who had the disappointment of selfish parents. It definitely leaves a mark.

@ShoeeMcfee I get what you mean about comments people make, assuming it's normal for everyone else. My dad is a good person always nice and polite to me but same way that the dental nurse or shoe salesperson is nice and polite. I always found it wierd and uncomfortable when hanging out with my cousins whose Dad was always very physical and affectionate, and they always had these things they would do, like little in jokes or tricks they played or silly made up words they used. They were always laughing and horsing about. I thought for years it was just my uncle but realised as I got older that others has fun Dads too. My cousin at her wedding said that her best friend in the world who she had no secrets with and always went to for advice was her Dad. I couldn't (and still can't) imagine being that open with a father.

Of course you are right, OP. And vice versa. A fellow school mum used to complain about her mother a lot. One day she said that 'you know what mothers can be like'. I replied that I was really sorry that she had to put up with this in her life but I can't relate as I had a lovely mum she had died recently. No-one should ever assume to know what someone else's family relationships are like.

I think we do!

This is but one of the many reasons the childfree choose not to have kids!

I remember once many years ago, I read Paul McCartney being interviewed and he happened to say that in his family when he was a child, everyone was nice to each other just about all the time. It really made an impression on me....imagine being super talented and a balanced human being? Or did one foster the other one?

Macca made a good point. Children who don't get the security of unconditional love don't get the profound sense of security which can foster self belief and confidence. They often don't fulfil their potential because they are full of doubt about their own worth.

Honestly, please stop telling me someone you don't know at all what I am and who I am you literally no nothing. Really not on to tell people how they should be defined

There are other ways to have an imperfect life and they are nothing to do with your experiences as a child, there are experiences that aren't a walk in the park as an adult and they aren't ones where I count myself lucky so stop with your accusations.

Then on a post wgere someone is trying to express the isolation that arises from having truly shit to is parents, I sujjest you don’t wax lyrical about ‘less than perfect’ oarents - years to toxicity isn’t having Jess than perfect oarents, and people like yoh putting your two pence wirth in about normal oarents is simply repeating the behavioyr and experience that peopld who havd had to live through the shit of toxic families have endured.

HTH

There certainly are other ways.

this post is about toxic oarents. It’s not a post about whether toxic parents are worse than other shit tgat life can throw at you.

in general, having toxic oarents creates a shit storm where the usual life shot happens plus a whole shit more because your broken brain tells you you deserve nothing better - some are luckier than others to have the penny drop faster. The toxicity is an extra special present OFW ten leaving yoh DWP lead TWD to cope either life’s ups abc down AND not realising yoh deserve better from peopld who see the opportunity to take the piss because you’re a push over.

my own life has been hell because all I knew of what I deserves was what was dolled out to me as a child.

Kindly, count yourself lucky.

Again, stop telling me I'm lucky you know fuck all about me.