to think people with nice parents have no clue what toxic parents are like?

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I keep seeing people say things like “I wish I still had my mum or dad around” or “You’ll regret it when they’re gone” and honestly it really gets to me. It’s said like it is a set truth. Like if you don’t feel that way about your parents there’s something wrong with you.

But some of us didn’t get loving supportive parents. Some of us got toxic manipulative ones who made our lives miserable and who we’re still trying to recover from. I get that people who had decent relationships with their parents feel that loss and I’m not saying they shouldn’t. But it’s frustrating when they assume everyone had the same experience.

It feels like people with nice parents just can’t imagine anything else. It’s always family is everything and you’ll regret cutting them off and never any space to say actually no this person hurt me over and over and I have every right to protect myself.

I won’t miss them when they’re gone. Maybe I already spent years grieving the parents I never had.

Why is it an important poll? We aren't voting for Parliament?

YANBU in how you feel, not by any stretch. But neither are the people who say things like ‘I wish my parents were still alive’. Your lived experience is not theirs, and theirs is not yours. It’s not their dutiful or moral responsibility to spend any time imagining what it’s like to have shit parents, and they can’t be condemned for that. But that can be hard for people with negative childhood and parental
memories to reconcile in their own minds. That’s understandable.

That’s not said in any way to disregard your own feelings about your parents but as with everything in life… childhood, education, marriage, kids, income, illness….life is different for everyone.

I totally agree OP. I referred to them as Polyanna Gobshites on another thread.

I wonder if it's a particularly juvenile way of boasting a) how lucky they are compared to you and b) virtue signalling

Go back and change it. You can do that.

You are right, OP, but I sometimes think that some people don't even try to put themselves in the shoes of others. They have no imagination and cannot see that the way things were/are for them isn't the same as for everyone. There can be no differences at all.

That's not the point op was making though. She was talking about people who write
“You’ll regret it when they’re gone” or "family is everything and you’ll regret cutting them off"
She also wrote " I get that people who had decent relationships with their parents feel that loss and I’m not saying they shouldn’t"

I agree. Until you've has this experience then no one has a right to judge. I tolerate my own DM so she has a bond with her Grandchildren. I find it difficult though, that will never change.

Totally agree. It’s only recently my best friend who knows my history has stopped asking me if I have plans to visit my DM who lives abroad and using the phrase “ but she is your mum”
I would not say my DM is toxic just supremely selfish and not really interested in me or my DC.
I do worry I might regret not going to visit she’s 82 now and I haven’t seen her for 6 years but whenever I start to think of the detail of it I can’t face it.

I know I’m very lucky and grew up with lovely parents, however we have had to go no contact with my dh parents as they are absolutely toxic to the core and didn’t ever deserve to have children.
Other people who haven’t seen it for themselves/experienced it first hand genuinely wouldn’t believe most of the things they have done as they are beyond belief.

I remember once many years ago, I read Paul McCartney being interviewed and he happened to say that in his family when he was a child, everyone was nice to each other just about all the time. It really made an impression on me....imagine being super talented and a balanced human being? Or did one foster the other one?

Another example is a girl I went to school with, who made a throwaway comment about laughing with her dad and it shocked me so much. I didn't know that some dads were fun and shared jokes with their children.

Final example: my lovely partner who is kind to everyone all the time. His parents were really nice to him when he was a kid.

My point is the obvious one: toxic parents ruin their children. Larkin probably said it better.

And this is precisely why I don't tell anyone, OP.
Because I've always known, even as a child, and still now as a 48 year old, that I'm outside the glass ball looking in on the world that lives inside the glass ball.
They can see me, but they would never, ever be able to hear me properly if I tried to tell them what my life is like because of my parents.
The people inside the glass ball are laughing and smiling.
I am sad.
They are together, in friendship, forming bonds and making happy memories with friends that they connect with.
I isolate myself.
They express how they're feeling, when they're happy or angry.
I bottle my emotions up.
They speak up for what they want in life.
I withhold my requests.
They feel optimistic.
I feel numb.
They have good self esteem.
I spend my life thinking I must be awful.
They have confidence in themselves and in the world around them.
I feel frightened and look upon the world around me with confusion.
Because when your parents treat you terribly, awfully, hurtfully. When they raise you telling you damning things about yourself and carry on throughout your adult hood. When they critisise you endlessly. When your basic needs and care are neglected by the very people that brought you in to the world. When you are screamed and shouted at. When you are manipulated in to believing their behaviour is all your fault. You end up very, very damaged.
And no amount of therapy can ever undo the damage caused.
And many undamaged people don't like to listen to damaged people. It unsettles them. It unnerves them. It makes them feel uncomfortable. Because if they listen to the damaged people, it will wobble their belief system. Their value system. So they prefer not to listen. And if they do hear, they dismiss what they hear with platitudes so that they can tell themselves that what you're saying isn't really true. It's not as bad as you're saying. It can't be. Otherwise it would mean that the world isn't the safe place full of nice people that they believe it to be.
And so this is why I don't talk to people about my parents.
Because nobody would listen to me. And even if they did listen, they would never understand. They would say something insensitive, or tactless, or condescending, or trite. Or they would simply not hear.
Which would hurt me.
And I'm hurt enough.
I don't need any more hurt.
So I walk alone on this path through life. Smiling. Being polite. Working hard. Keeping myself to myself. Never burdening others.
And wondering why this injustice ever happened.
Because I'm a nice person. A gentle person. With good, honest values. And I would so, so desperately have loved to be born to lovely parents who unconditionally loved me.
My heart aches to imagine the joy of what my life would have held, had I only been treasured by the two people who created me.

That's very similar to my mum and dad's relationship.

I remember reading "A Child Called It" a long time ago and not believing it. I knew that some parents were neglectful, for example, but I could not believe that a mother would deliberately target and abuse one child. I look back and can't believe how naive I was.

Totally agree

I wasn't looking for a perfect parent. But a parent who didn't call me a fucking bastard, fat cow and bitch.

I see your bastard, cow and bitch, and raise you Jonah, jinx and bad luck omen. Why, thanks, mum.

I was very lucky to have lovely parents who themselves had lovely parents. It wasn’t until I was in my 40s and started a new job after being a SAHM that I witnessed the damage that parents can inflict on their children. What I’m trying to say is, I worked with more than one person who had undiagnosed mental illness caused by being born to and raised by unfit parents

Agreed. Some people have no idea how lonely, terrifying and isolating it is without a safety net. My friends all have their parents as a safety net. Child care fallen through? Parents. Shoulder to cry on? Parents. Help moving house? Parents. Advice? Parents.

Just wait until they get old or go into care. You'll be treated like the devil incarnate if you're not bending over backwards to do everything you can to look after this 'sweet' old pensioner.

Do you have a blog? Your writing is brilliant.

I'm listening....

Yeah I see on various toxic mother threads, some posters saying ‘oh you should just say XYZ’

basically something really cutting and blunt. They don’t understand that those of us with toxic mothers still live in a shroud of fear to an extent, plus anger, hatred of them at times etc! It’s just not possible to be blunt, assertive and confident towards somebody that you feared and intimidated you for all of your childhood and well into adulthood.

I think part of it is because people are not perfect and are damaged by their own life experiences. As you get older, you realise that and forgive your parents a lot. My mother was stressed and emotionally unavailable for much of my childhood due to the demands of a busy job, a codependent toxic relationship with her own mother and having to do absolutely everything for the family (my DF is nice enough but probably ND and a bit useless in a generation when this was considered ok for men, whereas he wouldn't get away with it nowadays, I hope). Her mother was a loving parent in many ways, and proud of her children, but emotionally damaged by a childhood of extreme poverty and an absent father at a time when that carried a huge social stigma.

It takes a leap to get from 1) some people love their children but are flawed parents due to their personalities and/or circumstances, to 2) some people actually don't love or care for their children at all. It's very uncomfortable to acknowledge that parents like this exist.

YANBU at all.

The saying walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before you judge them is very apt for this. I had a very abusive relationship with my father. I didn’t tell anyone what had gone on until I was in my 30s due to fear, shame and thinking I wouldn’t be believed. When I’d tried telling someone when I was 12 I was accused of making it up.

When I was 18 and several years after my parents had divorced I was able to stop contact with him. For years I used to get the sort of remarks I’ve seen others mention from people who didn’t know what had gone on; two (and variations of them) that particularly got to me were, “you’ll regret the time you didn’t spend with him when he’s gone,” and, “you only have one Dad.” It was like I was the villain.
I went nuclear once or twice when speaking to people who came out with shit like that and from my reaction one would have thought they’d stop and think something must have happened for me to have reacted so dramatically. Oh no.
I wish I’d had the courage to lay it on the line with some of these people about my reasons for NC. I’d have the courage now but the truth came out during lockdown.
In fact remembering past unhelpful conversations with idiots about giving him a second chance was one of the things that drove me to snap.

Like stormroses had said earlier in the thread it’s best to not take advice from people who don’t understand or know about your situation.
Even if you have to be extremely abrupt and come across as rude, I would try and remove yourself from conversations with people who don’t understand about toxic parents.

Some people will understand, some won’t. Same as most things in life really. Being on MN has really opened my eyes to how bad it can be though.

YANBU. I work with children in a safeguarding role. Most parents do their best, but the unpalatable truth is that some parents simply don't care, and a small minority are actually capable of tremendous cruelty towards their children.