to think people with nice parents have no clue what toxic parents are like?

[pppaper]

I keep seeing people say things like “I wish I still had my mum or dad around” or “You’ll regret it when they’re gone” and honestly it really gets to me. It’s said like it is a set truth. Like if you don’t feel that way about your parents there’s something wrong with you.

But some of us didn’t get loving supportive parents. Some of us got toxic manipulative ones who made our lives miserable and who we’re still trying to recover from. I get that people who had decent relationships with their parents feel that loss and I’m not saying they shouldn’t. But it’s frustrating when they assume everyone had the same experience.

It feels like people with nice parents just can’t imagine anything else. It’s always family is everything and you’ll regret cutting them off and never any space to say actually no this person hurt me over and over and I have every right to protect myself.

I won’t miss them when they’re gone. Maybe I already spent years grieving the parents I never had.

Yes, OP.
Emotionally detach, use these people for practical purposes.
If not worth while or impossible without you giving too much of your time and energy, go low or no contact.
And it's not your fault.

The thing is - your post kind of ignores the middle ground.

I see people on MN all the time using terms like "toxic" or "narcissist" and they're basically meaningless in themselves. There is a spectrum from being critical and difficult to being full on abusive, and some people will use a term like toxic to describe a difficult, opinionated person and some will be talking about something much more serious.

It is also possible to make different choices about difficult family members without being an "enabler", a "doormat" or any other of therapyspeak descriptors you see on here.

I'll give an example..

My dad is probably what a lot of MN would label "toxic". He constantly shouted at and criticised us as children, and sometimes slapped us or threw away our toys. He did not let us have friends over. He had frankly ridiculous moral standards which led to him once threatening to call the police because he heard a male friend of mine make a mild innuendo to me when I was 15. When we grew up, he didn't come to my sister's wedding because he was at work. And lots more.

I think it is totally plausible that a lot MNers would cry "go NC".

I have made a different choice. The other side of the story is that DF is ND (yes really) and had a horrific childhood, including being locked in a cupboard routinely and his dad raping his big sister. There was no support for his ASD. Like many on here, parenthood hit him hard (he's not a patient person and not good with sleep loss). My younger sister was very very ill as a child. He focused on academic support and financial comfort because that was what he had missed in his own life.

As an adult, I find him difficult and limit time with him. But I also know he is a moral person with his own values and that he loves his children. Even if his behaviour to us was often borderline abusive.

The world isn't divided into lovely people and toxic people. I sometimes get very angry when I think of awful things my dad said. But I think when he's gone, there are things I'll also miss. That's real life too.

Well no, nobody can understand every possible different life experience other people have. I had lovely parents but some of my friends didn't. On an intellectual level I can understand what they went through, but I can't fully get in on an emotional level because it didn't happen to me. I don't tell them that they will miss their parents, but I think it is perfectly OK for me to say I miss mine or talk about how lovely they were. Just because they didn't feel loved by their parents doesn't mean they don't know how being loved or love someone feels. For example, I will also really miss my dog when he's gone, I don't think it's offensive of me to express that to someone who has never had a beloved dog.

We don't all have understand everything, I don't understand why we should. We just need to listen and be compassionate and understanding of the fact that people's lives are different.

I agree, very few people understand, unless they are in a similar situation with their parents. Lucky for them, I am pleased many people have lovely parents, sadly it wasnt to be for me. But I was very fortunate to find a lovely DH, who has always supported me and I have two sons, who are my absolute world, such wonderful people, and I have been also blessed with great friends too.

Yep. Totally. Been there done that with people who think I should speak to my sperm donor father and have tried to force contact BECAUSE FAHHHMMLLEE. He was a woeful father and I have nothing to say to him

I was listening to a podcast about an honour killing. It struck me that we have a cultural habit of saying things like “parents love their kids” “mums only want wants best for their children”. The podcast quoted a study that found that 64% of honour killings were at the instruction of women.

We know people don’t always love their children, we have multiple cases where mothers have let boyfriends/girlfriends beat their child to death (sometimes joining in) or neglecting their children to the point of death or extreme harm. I don’t know why people don’t understand sometimes that those people exist at a low level too, people who just don’t love their children or even like them. You see it here on threads about poverty etc, some people will choose to buy things for themselves rather than feed and clothe their kids because they want to not because they lack support or education.

My mother was like that, she just didn’t love or like me. People struggle to believe that and assume I must have done something to deserve it. The vast majority of children want to be loved by their parents. I came across the idea of the jungian death mother which felt a bit close to the bone.

Try growing up in the so-called care system the amount of times I got asked what did I do that was so bad I ended up in care lol had some great stock answers for people

💐

I felt this in my bones @LolleePopp. I hear you.
I often think how differently my life would have turned out too. It is so grossly unfair.

Most people don't care they are busy navigating their own family problems, or other problems.

I guess you are right. I can and do acknowledge that not everyone has good parenting. But I cannot begin to imagine the nuances of what that actually means.

It's a bit like my hearing loss. Friends and family understand it, as far as I explain it to them. But they struggle to understand the bits I don't necessarily talk about. usually because a particular circumstance has not arisen between us (stuff like don't try to talk to me when the sun/light is behind you, because I won't be able to lip read you)

And that's about something quite unlike how a traumatised child has grown up, that must be 1000 times harder to talk about.

I'm not sure what the answer is, I'm not sure the answer is for theses children to expose their trauma to all and sundry.

I don't think anyone on this thread thinks we are voting for parliament. It has a very clear title.

The OP (and many other people) have had the misfortune to be raised by toxic and/or abusive parents. The pain of it can last a lifetime and knowing you are not alone is important (whether you think so or not).

Your lack of understanding of the how that feels and the importance to people who have suffered difficult childhoods, suggests you are one of the lucky people who had good parents and a happy upbringing.

Your superior, sneering and dismissive attitude reminds me of my toxic mother. She thinks putting people down is clever too. She is also one of the most miserable and lonely people I know and it's all a consequence of the terrible way she has spent her life mistreating the people she should have loved most.

Unfortunately, people like you who are so dismissive of the pain that lasts well into adulthood for children of toxic parents, are probably the reason OP started this thread in the first place. She is seeking reassurance that she is not alone. I hope the results of the poll you think is so unimportant are helping her and others like her.

If you really want to know why it's so important, read some of the replies to this thread and try to be a bit more understanding.

@LightDrizzle Thankyou for introducing me to an excellent word that Ive never encountered before. I will totally have forgotten it by tomorrow however. But for today its excellent because I can use it in a sentence. "Sadly there are far too many solipsistic people in our nation and I fear the number is rising."

I voted yanbu @pppaper. Its one of the reasons I kept quiet and secretive about my troubled childhood for as long as I did because I knew that the peers and adults, I knew wouldnt understand. I finally told an adult how desperately unhappy I was when I was 18. I still know many of my childhood friends now and alas although yes they are still very much my friends and I love them dearly they dont understand my childhood misery because happily for them - they had marvellous parents!

That book made an impression on me too.

Oh god - my mum says that all the time! I am in no way asking her to be perfect, I am asking her to take some responsibility for what she does and to care when she does and says things I find very hurtful.

In fact she turns it round so the very mentioning of it is an attack on her and she goes into victim mode.

I have had 56 years of having to look after her emotional wellbeing - never once has she given a stuff about mine. Not when I was little or a teen or a suicidal 20 something.

She has never brought anything positive to my life.

On the very rare occasions I speak to my mother, I consider I've done well if we last more than 10 minutes before she calls me a "selfish cow" or "ungrateful bitch".

Yep, absolutely. Or even if you work to overcome the fear and start to lay down normal, healthy boundaries, they will be incensed at this insurrection, and their own fear that the 'worm will turn', and will go on the attack - turning your family and friends against you, making up lies about how you literally attacked and hurt them sooo much and when they were only trying to heeeelp...

The Flying Monkeys will be summoned. They will not stop until they have 'won' this bout of the power battle. What they won't do is say 'Oh yes, I see your point, I will try not to be so vicious, envious and sabotaging in future...'.

Hard to vote on this.

I am lucky and had incredibly loving parents. So although I can u derstand and empathise on a rational level, I can't truly know what it's like to have toxic parents. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to tell others that I miss them, as you put in the op.

I do think it's unreasonable to assume everyone should feel the same. However, if an aqaintance told me a parent had died I'd give platitudes/ express sympathy as that's the cultural norm.

Also, we can all make assumptions, shown by this thread. Not rtft, but a pp said its harder to grieve a poor relationship than a good one - in my case not true. Dp has a distant relationship with his parents and wasn't too impacted when his dad died. I had a great relationship with my dad and still miss him 20 years later/ grieve that my dc missed out on him etc.

I love that! Pollyanna Gobshites - brilliant!

I had very troubled parents who caused all manner of trouble and damage - I just accept it now but people who have more grounded parents just don't understand.

Truth. And it's hard to know why really - I mean, women with wonderful husbands don't deny that domestic abusers exist. These "but famiiiiily!!!" type comments when told that someone isn't lucky enough to have a good family are reliable indicators of a person who's pretty dense.

You need to protect yourself from
ignorance that is harmful. Do not explain anything to people that choose not to hear you. I share my life with those I am absolutely certain will understand and empathise (and not set me back by triggering fog) Anyone that truly values and loves you will want to know your whole story - everyone else gets a bland non story or nothing at all.

I had a very privileged upbringing and my mother was never abusive to me as such but she was certainly toxic. I’ve been NC for 7 years as she brings nothing positive to my life. I can’t remember the last time she said something nice to me.

I never knew going NC was a ‘thing’ until I read about it on the internet - in real
life nearly everybody assumes you must have a relationship with your parents because, well, they’re your parents. So no, YANBU.

As a result I don’t really talk about it to people, unless they’re perceptive enough to notice that I never talk of my mother and ask about her.

A comment made earlier really hit home - that you won’t grieve when they’ve gone, as you’ve already spent years grieving for the parent you deserve and wish you had.

I’m not keen on your AIBU?, but yes. You can’t imagine toxic parents unless you have them.

@Ihitthetarget I think it sounds a lot like you do understand the pain of toxic parents even though yours were loving. In contrast to @Praying4Peace whose comment suggests she doesnt.
Yes we all have crummy days as parents when we get it wrong. And our parents did too. That is nothing to do with being a toxic parent. Not even vaguely.

I once managed a lady who had to have a long period of time off because she had discovered a parent had committed a horrific crime (they’d since died, she found out posthumously). I was very sympathetic, as I could imagine how awful the discovery must have been for her. My manager, who didn’t know the reason kept saying “I don’t understand why she needs so much time off” (I’d simply said, she’d had some very difficult news and had been signed off for stress) and “I only had a few weeks off when my parents died and that is the most awful thing anyone could go through” and all I could think is gosh what a privileged life you’ve had to think that a parent dying of old age is the worst thing you can imagine going though. It’s tragic and hard, but just demonstrated such a small understanding of what happens in the world.