For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

The school should call parents to change the child covered in poo. A wetting accident I understand but a child shouldn’t be pooing themselves all week unless there is a medical issue that you are not being made aware of.

You’re not being unreasonable at all. At that age, the teacher should be having a discussion with the parents and they should be coming in to school to change their child.
If there’s no SEN, perhaps a recommendation to see a GP but 6 year-olds shouldn’t be soiling themselves regularly.
And as a TA with no training in intimate care, you’re within your rights to say no.

I dont think you're being unreasonable.

I think I'd help with a wet accident by supporting the child while they change themselves, but I too would draw the line at poo

Agreed, especially if no additional needs. Parents’ responsibility. Also YANBU to refuse without proper training. It seems overly intimate with such an old child, too- you wouldn’t be expected to wipe their bottom if they were sitting on the loo, would you.

Difficult element is the 'no SEN'. At their age it may well ot yet be diagnosed, and what you're describing may be a sign of SEN anyway.

I would say you need to stick to the lack of training part, for the kids' protection as much as anything. Lots of people on minimum wage deal with poo, and worse. At 6 many kids would need help cleaning up after an accident, but most wouldn't be having regular accidents.

My child at 6 with no SEN used to have poo accidents at school due to chronic constipation. However, at that age I would come in to change her and wouldn’t expect school to do it. I wouldn’t do it in your position either although I have done as a teacher with a TA to help me many times with year one

Absolutely agree, it’s not anyone’s job to be doing that.

With the high frequency you mention, kids should either have their parent come in every single time to change them, or they should be kept at home until they are properly toilet trained.

Fair enough that accidents happen etc but not this often.

See how magically they’ll be fully toilet trained when the parent is inconvenienced daily instead of school staff.

Bit different as you say they have no SEN (though a 6yo having multiple accidents would suggest something was going on, especially if previously dry). However, I would be very unimpressed if a child in my care was left to sit wet or dirty because noone wanted to change them. I also get very fed up with people quoting their job description at me when the bottom line is care for children. If you were one of my TAs, I would be arranging training for you pronto to ensure you were able to carry out all parts of the job effectively. Seeing as you don't feel you should be doing it as a TA, will you be happy to do it if you qualify as a teacher?

At 6 years old, if they haven’t been toilet trained properly, they’re hardly going to be able to clean and change themselves, so it’s very unfair to put that on them. The parents should be called to sort it, each and every time. Maybe then they would put more effort in to making sure their DC didn’t have accidents.
It used to be school policy that kids had to be out of nappies and fully able to go to the toilet themselves before starting school, there are now loads of pupils that start school in nappies! Is it lazy parenting? More SEN in general? No clue, but I definitely wouldn’t want to be changing kids if I was a 20 year old and it wasn’t in my contract.

Yanbu.

Are you sure they do not have SEN? Whilst it's not typical of a 6 year old to have regular accidents, I don't personally see the issue with a wet accident helping them get changed after or guiding them to do it themselves if needed. 💩 accidents I can understand a bit more

My barely 4 year has a medical condition which causes incontinence - she changes herself at nursery

Poo accidents can also happen which She does need some help with

are you sure you are aware of all the children’s specific medical needs? You can’t be certain this is all down to lazy parenting and not toilet training their kids

All the other stuff is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is:
I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training.

TAs get bullied into doing lots of things that they aren't contracted or paid to do. If you're not comfortable, don't do it.

If there is an identified medical or SEN need surely the kid should be in pull-ups or suitable nappies?

You’re absolutely right OP.
kids that age shouldn’t be having regular accidents.
It’s not your job to clean them up neither the teachers.

stick to your guns. It’s not in your contract, you have no experience or training and it’s not your job or theirs.

don’t let them make you feel unreasonable

If this was a kid in my class when I’m a teacher I’d be looking more into why on earth this is happening and working with the parents on an solution, instead of passing it onto a TA.

If school have agreed to change the child, as a TA I'd expect you to take your turn.

If school have agreed to change the child, as a TA I'd expect you to take your turn.
With no training? Not in the job description?
I wouldn't agree to do it either.

I haven’t said it’s lazy parenting or not toilet training, I’ve just said no SEN. I’m not aware of any medical issues or special needs.

Children that are wetting, you escort to the bathroom, perhaps help take off wet outer bottoms, close over the door so they can take the rest of items off in privacy, verbally encourage to wipe themselves and put clean underwear on, then go in and help put outerwear on if needed.
Child that is pooing themselves regularly then school needs to be calling parents

If school have agreed to change the child then why can't the headteacher do it? Or the business manager?

I understand somewhat more as a PGCE student and to be fair I wouldn’t necessarily ask my student to do this for a variety of reasons. Are you able to take the class alone yet, or are you not at that point? I will say this. You almost definitely will have to assist with something like this at SOME point in your teaching career. You may end up in KS1 even though you hope for KS2 - applying for jobs can be a bit brutal. If you end up with a child who does have additional needs and therefore needs support, you will be expected to assist with that. If a child falls unwell with an upset stomach and their parents are an hour and a half away at a meeting, again you will be expected to assist with that so the child does not have to sit in a soiled mess for an hour and a half. If you don’t think you could do that, in all honesty I would suggest not being a teacher.

As a teacher myself who obviously doesn’t like changing children, I appreciate this sentiment but I would so infinitely rather the children in my care be changed and supported at a time of need and embarrassment by someone they know well and are very comfortable with (hence me not necessarily asking a PGCE student to do this) rather than any random member of staff around school.

Yanbu. It shouldn't be a requirement to routinely changed a soiled older child in an education setting.

If its a medical issue there should be an ehcp with provision for personal care.

I will change children with intimate care plans and will support the child to change and help when they're distressed and in a state in the case of illness or exceptional accident with poo.

I'll change or support as needed with wee, but the kids do the wiping unless in an intimate care plan. It happens quite a lot in YR and 1. I also often mop toilets due to inaccuracy...

My school expects support and encouragement with wee from all TAs, but any actual intimate care or poo is only with prior agreement and only specific staff are willing to do it. Completely unreasonable to expect intimate care without full agreement of all parties.