For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

What training do you need?
Small kids have always had accidents I was at primary school in thec late 70,-,mid 80,s I have a very vivid memory of a child having a poo accident and being cleaned in a yellow bucket I think I was the only other child there this is not a new thing.

A 6yo regularly pooing themselves either does have Sen (many many children aren't diagnosed until much older) or a medical issue, they don't do it for fun.

As a TA I feel you should be more aware of this.

do you even get to chose to teach in ks2? I thought you get put where you get put, from R to Yr 6 in primary.

At 6 years old, all but the most severe SEN needs won't yet be diagnosed. Waiting times vary per area but autism here is 3 years and they won't accept a referral until they're at school unless they have a severe global development delay. 5 years if you need the complex care team.

All those "parents who need to be called in".

What if they're not just sitting at home round the corner?

What if they're at work? What if they're 90 mins away? You'd leave the soiled child sitting in their own faeces?

What if they're the surgeon performing your mum's hip replacement? The nurse looking after your friend's prem baby? The HCA feeding your grandad after his stroke? The driver on the bus taking you to work? The teacher in anither school with 30 children looking at them. They can't just drop their work and walk out, not to mention then travelling to their child's school.

Whatever the reason for a child soiling, you absolutely cannot leave a child sitting in soiled clothes waiting for someone to come. 5 minutes or 50 minutes it's absolutely unacceptable to punish a child like that.

And the reality of life is that most parents are working. So if school staff won't help to change the child, they'll be sitting there waiting. Dirty, uncomfortable, embarrassed and humiliated.

I would quote the often spouted comment made on here 'school is not childcare its to educate' . A child not school ready for any reason needs support out of classes. It's not a teachers job. Maybe it needs a school nursery nurse on site and return to to sen provision. Of course that now would be expensive, as 'inclusion' removed provision, to rebuild. Maybe the local MP should be 'on call' for schools..😉

Realistically working with kids means at some point you will have to help them in this way or with sickness. It is part of working with children.

Are schools admitting children who routinely require several changes per day /week? Are they employing people for these jobs or are teachers expected to do this too?
If a child has care needs as part of their education plan, surely someone is assigned to provide this, and not just teachers and TAs 'taking turns'.
If it's down to teachers and TAs who are assigned to many pupils, are teachers available for consistent teaching/guiding learning? Are the TAs actually available to support the learning of the pupils they're meant to support?
It seems a lot is expected of teachers of TAs outside their actual remit.

I find this sort of thread depressing in the extreme.
if a child came into school struggling in another area of their development like writing or speaking then a plan would be made to support that child.
but if they struggle with toileting (and there are many,many reasons for this that may not have been diagnosed yet!!) then the first assumption is that parents are lazy and just not trying hard enough.

I’m a parent of a child who had accidents until quite a way into primary, we really and honestly had read all the articles, visited doctors, tried every technique suggested, used medication, bought gadgets. I could have written a book on it in the end and was incredibly stressed. We were lucky to have a really supportive school but it is so demoralising how quick people are to judge.

Slightly off topic but maybe have a think about whether there is anything that could make going to the toilet easier, to try and head off accidents instead of deal with results
My DS had issues with accidents at school after being dry at home, there were all kinds of contributing factors: getting preoccupied with a task and forgetting until too late, finding the noisy hand dryer scary, worrying would be told off if asked to go mid lesson as he should have gone at break but was playing, being scared of going by himself due to risk of bumping into a violent kid from next door class who had previously tried to kick his way into the cubicle when DS was mid poo…
So there maybe things you can do to help your frequent accident children (reminders, being allowed to take a friend) and also directly asking if there is anything about the school toilets they don’t like/ find scary and getting it fixed

the class teacher is leading the class. Do you think the TA should take over the teaching?

If you are working with children, then you should expect that sometimes youll need to get stuck in and help out with whatever needs doing tbh.
Deciding that you think a 6 year old shouldnt have accidents, therefore youll refuse to help them clean up, would show that you dont have a lot of compassion for the range of abilities of children, and arent much of a team player.
You wouldnt necessarily be told about the SEN of children in your class, and also there isnt specific intimate care training.

If you dont know how to do it, then its fine to ask to be shown, but you cant really just refuse to do it. Someone has to, and youve been employed to assist the teacher with the class, not the other way round.

The parents aren't there. The school is in loco parentis. I don't disagree the situation is unreasonable but deliberately leaving a child soiled is neglect, no matter how indignant you feel about it.

The class teacher’s attitude tells you everything about why there is a retention crisis in education and why no one wants the job.

Teachers, especially primary teachers, are usually kindly eager females who as children always wanted to be the teacher’s pet with their neat hand writing and slightly bossy superiority. They would do anything to please and be praised. And they still do that in the profession. Working all the hours God sends, bending over backwards for arsehole parents, putting their own needs last. Those teachers become Heads and perpetrate the same downward spiral.

It’s become such a cliche that it’s now an expected professional standard. And anyone who doesn’t martyr themselves isn’t ‘committed’ or ‘dedicated’ enough. Funny how this only happens in a female dominated profession! 🙄

I don’t blame you for refusing op. No-one of your age on mainstream TA wages should be cleaning up human shit. Keep your boundaries. Hopefully if there are more normal people demanding professional boundaries, the education system might improve. 🤞🏼

Welcome to teaching 2025. Despite only being responsible for that child’s life for 1/6 of their day, you are their parent.

If this was a kid in my class when I’m a teacher I’d be looking more into why on earth this is happening and working with the parents on an solution, instead of passing it onto a TA.

Do you really think the teachers or other TAs haven't bothered to consider this? And that you will be able to resolve a serious medical or behavioural issue when you are qualified just by calling in a parent for a chat. This is very naive.

I think you are right to ask for training and to push for investigation into why it's happening but I think YABU to sit back and watch another TA or teacher do it. You are not being a team player. I work in childcare and sometimes accidents happen and we change them, it's horrible and we don't have changing facilities or specific intimacy training, no one enjoys doing it but it's a fact of life in that job and no way would i let a child sit in their own dirt on a point of principle. We've had to clean up vomit too ococcasionally, that's just the way it is with kids.

Oof. I think it’s part of your duty of care. But I’m in the minority I see. Also ‘no SEN’ is ridiculous to say at 6. Especially with current wait lists for assessments.

As you say, youve next to no experience of children so not qualified to determine if a child has SEN.

A 6 year old regularly having accidents is more likely to be SEN and/or have a medical condition causing it as the vast majority of 6 year olds aren't going to be soiling themselves for fun.

My 9 year old soils himself multiple times a day and needs changing multiple times a day at school which is done by 2 TA's named on his intimate care plan. His bowel doesn't work correctly and school are happy to support him.

Perhaps there’s something else going on……has anyone approached his parents to ask if he does this at home? Could his messing himself be a reaction to not wanting to be away from home?

YABU. If you want to work with small children, some of them will have accidents. Schools are in loco parentis so caring for children, including cleaning them up after unfortunate accidents, is just part of the role sometimes and should be done discretely, compassionately and without any shame being attached.

As for call the parents, most have jobs and many will have a long commute and you're not seriously going to leave a small child in soiled clothes until they arrive, are you?

@Dweetfidilove

Are schools admitting children who routinely require several changes per day /week?

Yes because children with continence issues are entitled to an education too.

Are they employing people for these jobs or are teachers expected to do this too?

There’s not enough money in the school budget to employ specific health care assistants although some special schools do

If a child has care needs as part of their education plan, surely someone is assigned to provide this, and not just teachers and TAs 'taking turns'.

Toileting needs alone is NOWHERE NEAR the threshold for requiring an EHCP or additional funding.

If it's down to teachers and TAs who are assigned to many pupils, are teachers available for consistent teaching/guiding learning? Are the TAs actually available to support the learning of the pupils they're meant to support?
It seems a lot is expected of teachers of TAs outside their actual remit.

Welcome to education in 2025!!

This is true. It can be a messy job. I used to love my job as a nursery nurse but hated it if children vomited. Unfortunately it was part of the job and I just had to get on with it !

That's a you problem though.

My DD also had chronic constipation and had regular poo accidents in T1. She could just about change herself. It is due to her bowel not functioning properly in the same way as her peers. I can assure you that depriving her of the education she is legally entitled to would not have made her bowel work any better. I work at a distance as did DH at the time. There is no legal obligation for parents to come in and change a child.

OP - I'm afraid this is part of your job.

Neglect by whom exactly?
It's not the job of the TA to clean up a 6 year old!

If a school has multiple 6YOs regularly having toilet accidents claiming they have no SEN, I would expect the school is failing to recognise SEN.