For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

Let's hope the school are more familiar with the equality act than the posters on here

Unless specified in your contract, you are not required to change any child.

It is the school's responsibility to have a range of staff who will assist children and their personal needs. There should also be a policy about personal care and maintaining a childs dignity, privacy and keeping yourself and them safe.

If someone is off, they still need to cover all the requirements that the staff member caters for, such as being a first aider, personal needs, or blended feeds, or giving medication.

Schools are in Loco Parentis so they need to provide care for the DC in the class. If a DC has issues with toileting they often need a TA to be trained to help with that. Schools cannot afford to employ two TAs for one class because the first refuses to do it.

I'm a TA and I have a duty of care. I haven't had any 'intimate care training' and it's not in my job description. I would check with SLT to see if it is in the policy

Because knowingly leaving a child soiled is neglect
Lots of things won't be part of the job description, like a child vomiting over themselves etc but that's all part of caring for young children.

I really don’t know the answer. I do think that toilet training has gone down the list of priorities for some parents. My Dc are early 20s now but they were not allowed to attend nursery at 3 unless they were out of nappies. I don’t think nurseries can do this now so there is no incentive .

Neglect by whoever is refusing to change them. If you aren't able to meet a child's needs then you shouldn't be working with them.

I'll ask again, whose job is it when then parents aren't there?

Schools simply don't have the funds for this.

Again, neglect by whom?
The parents must be aware of the issues.

Christ Alive. I can't read this any more times & not comment. Why does an adult need training to clean up a child & put them in fresh underwear? I started babysitting at 13, perfectly able to change nappies & deal with 'accidents'. Adults have been using the toilets themselves for many years, how difficult is it to apply the same method to helping a child.

for the love of god there will be 'training' to breathe' next!

@Bernie6678 I don't know. FAR more children are going to school unable to use the toilet independently ( toilet training left FAR too late these days) & schools being forced to accept untrained children. I think when that's the case the TA's need to accept it is part of the job at that school & find a school where it's not if they are not prepared to do it.

I can understand you not being prepared to do it & don't blame you. I have looked after kids since I was 13, all ages & children with SEN who even as teenagers needed help or nappies, so as much as it's unpleasant (especially poo& periods), I'm used to it & willing to do it for those that NEED it. For those who just don't want to do it for themselves I'm happy to talk them through it.

I like your position when you say what you'd do as a teacher, but don't forget, your schools policy will dictate what you do, so something to discuss before accepting a job.

It’s part of a TA contract to help a child that has soiled themself. Of course they need help and kindness shown . For most chn it’s a one off and it’s a wee.

Perhaps it's the job of the parents to get there. 😬

I’d focus on the not in job description and not trained. You need to protect yourself. If a child or parent made an allegation you are in a vulnerable position.

Look at joining a union, fees go on salary so will be low.

I understand you not wanting to. It’s a tricky situation to be put in. Especially with all the emphasis on safeguarding during your training. To be sent into a loo with a packet of wet wipes and a partly undressed child can be disconcerting.

I think the question really is one for your union. If it’s not in your contract or terms of employment, can you reasonably be expected to clean a soiled child. That’s where I would direct your query.

Crazy how many kids are wetting and pooping themselves at school nowadays. That almost never happened when I was that age (c.1980) and also didnt when I was training to be a teacher (mid 90s).
So presumably it must mostly be because parents arent teaching their kids in time for them to be reliably clean and dry at 4-5yo.

And also op, it's worth remembering that as a trainee the teacher may be aware of confidential information relating to that child that you aren't privvy to. So they may know there's no SEN, but actually there's a history of neglect or trauma that child is actively working through so in that instance it would be vital that child is supported as much as possible to sustain a stable environment like a school they are familiar with. You're not going to be told that to protect their confidentiality.

The school of they are leaving a child in their own faeces the child might have the worst parents in the world but they still don't deserve to be neglected

When I worked in a school (SEN) the policy was that men had to do it with another person.

You can’t be on your own with a child. So it’s quite embarrassing g for a child to have two adults changing them at 6. That’s why I stay outside and assist from there.

All staff not just men!!! Fgs!!!!

They are delayed in general, and that leads to delays everywhere. Their gross motor skills, fine motor skills, speech, social skills etc.

I also work with children and Covid caused a lot of delays but also screen time, poor diets, parents having to work like crazy to afford to live, and by far my biggest theory is LACK OF A VILLAGE. The difference in children who have a village and who don’t is shocking. My kids have huge developmental leaps anytime family or friends come and stay (we live abroad away from family). Social networks are so important if grandparents and wider family can’t be involved. A lot of parents are struggling.
For this child it does sound extremely likely they have SEN however! I don’t think OP is right at all. A 6yr old wouldn’t be doing this for no reason.

It isn’t. Schools should not be requiring parents to attend school to deal with accidents. The supporting pupils at school with medical conditions statutory guidance covers this. It applies even if there isn’t a diagnosed condition.

@Bernie6678 That sounds frequent for a class of 6 year olds. Is there a culture in the school, and among the teachers, of not letting children use the toilets?

It was normal when I was a child for the teachers to restrict children from using toilets outside of designated times, and the consequence of course was that children would piss themselves.

I think that’s a big factor, though it’ll get you hanged on here!

I don’t think any nurseries/schools have a requirement for toilet training to have been completed (except maybe private schools who can cherry pick their entrants). Maybe our busier lives in general, parents working antisocial hours etc doesn’t help much either.

Though bullying starts very young now and a great way to stick out for all the wrong reasons is to pee/poo your pants at school. If there are parents out there who aren’t bothered, they really should be.

It absolutely did i remember it happening my dh remember, s having a poo accident in school I'm 51 he's 50.