For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

YANBU for not wanting to do it but YABU for not doing it. Unfortunately it’s part of the job these days so you need to step up and do it. In year 1 SEN issues might not have been investigated yet.

Oh and a y1 child should be able to change their own clothes if there's a wetting accident and clean up with baby wipes with non contact adult supervision (eg someone on hand to make sure they don't flush wipes etc).

Which is fine if you as the class teacher wants to do it - I'm not sure why the obvious answer is to make the lowest paid member of staff do it when it's not part of their job description.

Firstly check with parents if medical issue, my daughter still suffers from something called overflow and had multiple accidents in YR and Y1, we set her up to deal with them but I'd also not want to do the clear up if it wasn't my child, however, saying that, as anyone with care for children I think its part and parcel. Our teachers and TAs have been wonderful about it. She even had an accident recently and she is Y3, I called the teacher/TA as she was worried she left a poo mark on her chair, they checked and were extremely understanding.

Maybe my view is skewed by being from a country where 6 year olds are still at nursery/being cared for at home and don’t start school til 7, and I think they start school and are expected to be independent ridiculously early in the Uk…but I would be very unimpressed if I was called out of work to deal with a toilet accident, or if the school expected a 6 year old to clean themselves up without help.
Though accidents every week does sound excessive and should be raised with the parents/GP.
Do the children have free access to the toilet or can they only go at break/between lessons?

My son really struggled with toileting until the start of year 2. He did not have any dx until half way through year 1. I am so grateful to the TAs who looked after him in so many ways. They kept him in school. Without them he would not have been able to attend. Thanks to their kindness and patience, going well beyond what should have been expected of them my son managed to complete his education. I still think of those fantastic people. This child's parents will be beyond grateful to you for making sure he is comfortable.

Christ you sound bossy and unreasonable

Nope that’s not your job. It isn’t any teacher’s job!
Obviously if a child has SEN then specific arrangements would be made. However a SIX YEAR OLD child with no SEN (none declared by their parent, at least) and no medical issues contributing such as Crohns or something else, just a neurotypical and otherwise healthy 6yr old soiling themself and requiring ‘changing’ is utterly ludicrous and frankly, neglect on the parent’s part.
Absolutely not your job. In fact, anything that’s not listed in your contract of employment, is not your job.

My DD has ASD and took a very long time to toilet train but my gosh she was ready looooooong before Reception, let alone year 1. By then, she was a pro!

Ps, DD is now in Y5 and can I just say, you’re all heroes in disguise. HOW you all juggle 25-30+++ bundles of pure attitude and not end up in prison is beyond my wildest comprehension. Genuinely.

Whose job do you think it is @Bernie6678? You say you'd 'rather not' - does that mean you'd be resistant to the training if it was available?

She’s not a care worker . The responsibility lies with the parent unless the child has a care plan/known disability surely ? Accidents are understandable but this is too much

6 year olds are rarely diagnosed.

I was 'diagnosed' at 4 and had had 5 different diagnosis's by age 8 when they started finally started on the right path... I'm late 30s and while I have several disabilities diagnosed I'm STILL under investigation with some symptoms that don't have a definitive diagnosis yet.

It’s a bit strange that so many children at this age are having accidents. Is the area the school is located in a low socioeconomic area or is there a lot of at risk children? I could understand 1 or 2 for various reasons, my dd at 6yo started having accidents after being toilet trained for years, she stopped just as suddenly as she started. I also have a niece who was having accidents upto 10yo due to severe constipation.

Personally as a parent I would engage with the school and would have no problem with the class TA helping, my year R & 1 TA was amazing and I absolutely trusted her.

If it’s not in your JD then I understand you not wanting to do it especially if you don’t want to work in KS1 but I absolutely would reconsider your stance as a TA im guessing the school move TAs to where they are needed most ( they do at my DDs school) Also as a teacher you may be moved around classes too and work in different year groups once your fully employed.

Do,the children get toilet breaks, do,they ask to go to the toilet, I wouldn't expect regular accidents for no reason.

This. Ofcourse the teacher should contact the parents to see if there is a medical problem/Sen if it happens multiple times but I think YABU to just say it's not part of your job description. You don't have to physically wipe the kid but give instructions and help out is pretty basic. Is it in your job description to get some ice if someone has a fall and hurt themselves? To console a crying child? You're there for their wellbeing as much as for helping them academically.

Why do you want to become a teacher? You say you have no experience with children whatsoever so what made you take a step in that direction? If you never want to get your hands dirty I would advice you to take an admin role somewhere and not be around children.

So who should be doing it? Presumably the teacher can’t leave you alone with the class as you’re not qualified yet. And in teaching there will be something like this that comes up. Have you asked the teacher what the plan is with parents and if there is anything going on? I’m not shocked the teacher raised it as an issue tbh.

How on earth is it the parents responsibility if a child soils themselves outside of the home??
People aww quick to parrot that there are no issues with this child but the fact that a 6 year old is soiling themselves regularly would suggest otherwise.

Missing the point but you know you mostly can't choose to only teach KS2, don't you? Unless you only apply to junior schools, most schools (every one I've ever worked at) has moved teachers around every few years. Some Heads ask for opinions, some tell you where you're going...

If I was a TA and somebody tried to send ne on a course to clean up dirty poo ridden children, I would give a very clear refusal. Children shouldn't be in school until they are clean. If OP really wants to teach perhaps KS3 would be better.

IMO that's an issue for the child or the child's parents to deal with. These children are not school ready.

Absolutely, really @Eastendboysandwestendgirls you're being sneery and judgy about this?..
You don't sound like a very good manager or 'superior' as you'd probably call yourself.
'How vairy dare you not do that which I've told you to!! I don't care its not your job... I who is clearly above you, have deemed it your task!!"

There is some shocking ignorance on this thread, the school needs to provide care for the child and cannot tell the parent to come in and do it. Its likely there is SEN or a medical issue - no child wants to poo themselves at school. You are in the wrong job if you aren’t prepared to provide the care the children need , and I’m surprised this isnt in your contract. Being a TA these days isn’t sticking artwork on the walls and handing out worksheets , its supporting kids with SEN.

@NotAntisocialJustSelectivelySocialNo, it’s because they have to start school at 4, when they’re not long out of the baby stage! Some kids just take longer to get it, I’m definitely not a lazy parent and worked a lot at toilet training but DD was still refusing to poo anywhere but in her pants til she was nearly 4, and even after she started using the toilet she occasionally had an accident, all the way up until age 5. I’m guessing in the past she would have just been excluded from starting school, I dunno.

A 6 yr old with multiple poo accidents needs some investigation. Whether that’s medical, educational or social services. Something is going on.

the child needs support and you need to rethink your career choice.

PS I meant to add the school ought to have an intimate care plan in place for this child.

It's not your job, nor is it the teacher's job. In fact providing intimate care like that puts you at risk of being accused of inappropriate touching.
You can guide a child to clean themselves, but really the parents should be called in to provide this care. A referral should be made to their doctor to see why this might be happening.