Husband ran up debt

[deirdrechilly]

He’s just told me he has 21k of debt. He told me last week it was 7k which came as a shock as I thought it was 5k a few years back and he was working to clear it (like myself who also had 5k and has been working to clear it)

When we met 20 years ago he had 30-40k of debt, lived with his parents and drove a bucket of shit car. No designer clothes or expensive habits, nothing to show for it other than nights out and poor money management.

He took out an IVA to clear it and also a second job. It was cleared he quit the second job and we were finally debt free, built up credit and finally able to buy a house.

then tonight he tells me this. It’s built up over 10 years he says. Nothing to show for it.

i also had debt when we met, had a DMP, and learned from it. Have achieved several promotions in my career and found out last week I’m soon to be getting a promotion that comes with a 17k pay rise bringing me on to 61k per year. This is still sinking in for me, I left school at 15 with no aspirations, got saddled with debt from my first relationship, spent years working two jobs myself and finally felt as though I was winning at life last week. I was excited to look at new houses as have been wanting to move, he mentioned consolidating credit card/loans. I said oh what do you have left I only have 2.5k on mine. He said 7k I was a bit shocked and it’s been on my mind. On one card he said, just not managing to survive despite working 2 jobs (he was adamant he wanted to work a second job again about 5 years ago for extra income)

clearly our finances are separate, with his 2nd job we were earning roughly the same until 6 months ago when I got a pay rise.

we have our own accounts and send money to a joint account for bills. His 2nd job is taxiing so he needed to take out a loan for his car, he pays that himself (don’t know if this is fair or not I could never decide)

we fight the odd time when times are tough money wise and I say right let’s sort this out and show me your outgoings and we can see if it’s fair. he thinks he pays out more than me, he is shit with money but I didn’t think to this degree.

i don’t know his taxi earnings, we pay joint bills and the rest is divided up so he pays petrol usually and some groceries and I cover majority of household stuff and anything for the kids as I shop more and enjoy it.

im hurt. Im angry. I feel so deceived. I feel so stupid. I feel sorry for myself that my big pay rise is going to be spent sorting his mess out.

I don’t know if I’m being over dramatic or not - he will tell me I am.

this only came about because he has pissed me off today for other reasons and I know he always avoids showing me his finances. I wanted to sort out money to see what kind of mortgage we could get and after he told me he had debt I wanted to know the full picture. He said he took his credit card off his Apple pay but I saw him use it today. He has at least 3 on there - yes I looked and I’m glad I did as it set the ball rolling for me to find this out today.

im sorry this is long. I’ve left the house to clear my head and I’m literally digesting this as I type.

any advice welcome. Am I the asshole for being dramatic, is this that big a deal? Who clears it?

how do I work out finances now?

he tool charge of the mortgage renewal 2 years ago, the next door neighbour is a mortgage advisor and must know all this yet I’m in the dark. I was getting a hard time for how many times I shop a week I’m in home bargains ffs

there is no gambling issues, I’ve never suspected this and he’s told me there isn’t but it’s something I will be checking to make sure. I just think he lives outside his means and has shit money management.

and tonight before this came out I was accused of being a bully coz I told him to stop acting like a manchild

You can't cure him. You will never know the truth. He will never tell you the truth. He just doesn't care about the family or you.You need to speak to a solicitor for advice on your finances before you divorce.

My brain is not working. Trying to work out the joint bills and make them fair - in his main job he earns about 30% less than me. He brings home slightly more than me when the taxi earnings are included. The taxi expenses are paid solely by him.

I will be in charge of all his money, he will get a bare minimum each month.

Do I pay more to the joint and let him pay less - any excess goes to his debt.

if it was you and he wasn’t in debt, how would you pay the joint bills with a main and second income with him paying the expenses associated with second income?

what would you do if he was in debt like he is?

Sounds like your income is about the same so why not say house expenses are 50/50? Or if the taxi costs are a fortune then 45/55?

Do I pay more to the joint and let him pay less - any excess goes to his debt. No - he racked it up he pays it. why should you suffer?

@BountifulPantry I wasn’t sure about the taxi costs but the figure I had was after tax and expenses but I’d already accounted for them not realising the figure I had was after deductions so he earns more than I thought in the taxi.

More than me after tax, not huge but also not slightly so yes I think I will remain with 50/50 for the joint.

I have felt bad over the last year and a half when I got my last pay rise that I was earning more so should contribute more but he’s still earning more than me yet has no spare cash.

We distributed costs based on take home pay.
We have a spreadsheet with all of our monthly costs on it and our annual costs pro rata'ed per month.
We pay this amount into the joint account and we live from this account.
You need to work out what his typical earnings for a week are. I would say that if he's earning at least as much as you do 50:50 with the taxi income I'd look at how much he would do if he wasn't in so much debt and adjust his income for the joint account accordingly. Say he's going out and extra day a week to bring the debt down I would work out his earnings for paying into the joint account as if he was working a day less.

Do I pay more to the joint and let him pay less - any excess goes to his debt.
if it was you and he wasn’t in debt, how would you pay the joint bills with a main and second income with him paying the expenses associated with second income?

I have a second income and am also the higher earner. I look at my second income, deduct monthly/annual business costs (eg insurance or training costs divided by 12 gives me a monthly expenditure) put a proportion aside for tax. That tells me how much I’m actually making.

I then transfer that income along with my salary to our joint account, DH does the same. From there we know what our total income is going to be.

We then write a budget, including all the household expenses, including an amount for food shopping, kids costs etc. Anything left over is divided between individual spending money and savings, we don’t have any debt or it would be included here. We pay ourselves first, so money not accounted for in the budget goes straight to savings, so that we don’t over spend.

From there, if it’s not in the budget, we don’t do it - if it’s an emergency, eg vet bill, it comes from our emergency savings fund. Once our personal spending money is done, it’s done. No putting things on credit cards or dipping in to savings.

But if you’re going to get on top of it, and do this with him, you need all income to start in one pot.

Thanks for the advice. Having had a good look today I can see it’s built up and peaked around 7 years ago but hard to work out when he’s had credit cards back then he no longer has access to for statements. He has indulged himself when working in the office every day, lunch and snacks every day. Trips to the pub on there too, Ubers, nights out, Xmas presents for me - he buys for no one else - it is literally the biggest pile of shit. He’s in denial still and says oh but it’s all been Tesco food and petrol but I can pinpoint dates, times and amounts to work out it was a takeaway for one person, I was visiting family for a week and he went out every night drinking and eating kfc. I’ve spelled it all out to him today and made him listen as I detailed 7 years worth of statements and it’s starting to sink in. He’s also starting to understand that the Tesco shops he does is for him primarily, he’s the one that wants something when the cupboards have plenty in them so goes out and indulges himself.

he agreed today that he is responsible for only a quarter of the household spends (outside of the bills) all the toiletries, cleaning products, new bits for the house, groceries, birthday presents, clothes, school fees - it’s all on me. He actually earns more than me yet I pay 75% of this and still manage to save a wee bit.

his average spend this year is about £350pm on his credit cards, again all for stuff for the house and nothing that major so the ‘savings’ we will make a month will be minimal now the cards are cut up.

I am terrified that we won’t survive the month because he can no longer use credit and his wages don’t seemingly cover his outgoings.

I’ve worked out a spreadsheet and he’s saying he’s coz I’ll just not go to Tesco and spend - that’s right I will have to go and I will have to tighten our belts for us and I’ll be the one penny pinching at every purchase. I feel sick at the thought of spending money on essential groceries tonight.

the plan is to have his wages paid in to his account. All his bills come out of that. He will keep his other current account and only use that for spending. I don’t want to do joint income. We will discuss once a week what’s needed for the house etc and he gets his allowance (how fecking sad) he needs to be accountable for any spending and I’ll have access to both accounts and will move the money to where it needs to be - taxi income to tax savings account etc.

I’ve made him apply for a long term balance trf card as per Martin Lewis website and hoping it gets accepted - still waiting to hear. He’s being charged interest on some cards already and some are due to charge in the next month and early next year. He didn’t want to but I had to explain he needs to stop paying fees on transfers and interest as he’s moving money every few months. He had £650 balance trf fees in the last 3 months and it’s a constant thing.

really feeling sorry for myself, we have a lot of expenses coming up. The wedding, big family birthday/trip and other things were committed to. I’m so angry.

I hope he's making his sandwiches every night for the next day and taking a water bottle with him ?

Working from home these days but yes there’s been no trips to the shop and he went out to taxi with water and a snack. He seems to get it, I just don’t know how long it will last

It’s historically very common fir low earning or indebted men to turn the finances over to “the wife” just at the moment they are intolerable and insufficient. You are left eith sll the agony snd struggle while he is still fre to complain. Are you willing?

I'm aware I'll be a lone voice and probably enrage everyone but I'll take my chances anyway.

I think your husband has been misguided but treating him like a naughty child with no access to funds is going to result in the end of your marriage. There is no way he is going to last beyond a week going from the life he has been living to going out with water from home and a sandwich.

He owes 20K. This is in the context that he must earn at least 40k? A loan for 20k over 7 years at 7.4% costs around £300 each month. I think he should just take out a loan, close the cards and pay it back over the term.

He will then be able to manage, pay his way and still afford a can of coke. He should allow you full access to his accounts so you can give him a kick up the arse if he escalates. Agree what he thinks is reasonable on personal spends e.g. £10 each day and a small extra weekly budget for socialising if that is affordable after crunching the numbers.

I think everyone saying you should divorce him, he can never be trusted etc etc should consider if OP will actually be better off financially or emotionally without the father of her child to contribute emotionally, practically and financially. He really will be working all the hours then as he will be trying to pay his debts, pay child maintenance and rent somewhere for himself. That's before we get to wanting his share of equity, pensions and that you would likely be deducting his debts from his assets when splitting assets.

Your husband sounds a decent bloke OP just impulsive to me. It seems his heart is in the right place and I think you are better off with him than without him - but keeping a watch on excessive spending.

If however you can no longer stand him and you do sound like you despise him a little talking about greed etc then put everyone out of their misery and call an end to it rather than treat him like a child.

As an aside - with all the talk of snacks/takeaways and impulse control is he a big bloke? If he is interested in Mounjaro he might save more than the cost of it on the junk food.

Have you read the thread? He has two jobs and earns more money than OP.
He kept his debt a secret from his wife for all these years.
He actively lies about trivial things dails.

He is a noose around OPs neck.

Lies about buying a can of redbull? I'd refuse to live in a house with a ring doorbell if I was being spied on to see if I was buying a can of pop.

OP, such a sorry thread.
He is a selfish loser.
I notice you felt an implicit threat by him of self harm?
You know that is classic abuser behaviour to regain control?

He implies he might as well self harm?
Do not allow this selfish waster take your future.

He has 100% put himself first all these years.

You need to put you and your children first.
Stop lying and feeding his narrative that he is the big man.

He's a liar who pays 25% of costs, doesn't pay for his kids and has run up huge debt treating himself.
How can you even look at him?
Forget him and make plans to save yourself.

Start by telling family and friends the truth.
Then start planning on how you divorce him.

He isn't worth staying with.
He's a shit father who put his spending first.
You mind yourself, he only cares about himself.

Those tears are 100% for himself.

@Winter2020 yes he has absolutely been misguided we have discussed before that he has had a poor education of money that stems from his parents, they frequently had new cars etc on credit then had to swiftly give them back. Lived hand to mouth, would seem well off from the outside but wouldn’t have £20 to spare. He says this himself now too.

he has asked me to take his cards and take charge, I don’t want to as we will resent each other and I will feel like his mum. It’s what he’s asked for as he knows he’s out his depth and can’t control the sotuation.

i have no plans to leave him. I’m not as angry, I’m sad and hurt. He understands this is more than money now, he didn’t before as he was still trying to bury his head in the sand about the full picture but I haven’t let him. I believe he needs to see how this has happened and get a grip on reality, he needs to fully understand in order for me to believe he will not go there again. Regardless of how we work finances in the future I will be checking his credit report regularly and always will.

yeah his earnings are roughly 40k, I’m moving some debt to an interest free card (hopefully) that lasts until 2027, the big credit card is due to charge next year. Plan is to blast away at that and then move to zero again. He has finance he needs to clear asap but it’s small amounts. He has a loan in his name for 15k on top of this debt that I was aware of, he needed a taxi after his was wrote off a few years back. I’d like to get the card debt cleared and had every intention of moving in a year or so. Providing he continues to clear the debt and not accrue any I would be looking to consolidate the remaining then in the mortgage - please don’t come for me. I haven’t looked into all of this yet but it’s my loose plan. Yes it’s his debt but I’d be liable for it if we split up anyway and it would come out of house equity so it’s little odds of it’s in his name or not.

He’s on egg shells with spending at the minute but does want me to take charge of his so I’ll provide the Coke in the weekly shop - he works from home anyway.

funny you say, he’s not massive but was considered obese as per nhs bmi last year and previous to that he was carrying a good 2 stone extra at the height of the spending. Iv been on a serious health kick and he joined in so our takeaway/sweets spend has been lower than ever before. I have a sweet tooth but have always maintained my weight as I’ve never been as excessive as him. Thing is he can do it when he wants to during the week but at the weekend he was eating everything he didn’t midweek.

and you’re right he is a decent bloke, this has spiralled and he’s got in a mess. I’m is wife and I’m going to help him. He needs to show me he’s helping himself too. He’s a brilliant dad and our kids adore him. He just has to work on some things for now.

Obviously you haven't read the thread. No, it's not the lies about cans of red bull 🙄

Hi OP,
I thought you and your husband might find the advice on this thread helpful and interesting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5369058-how-bad-is-my-situation-am-i-delusional?page=1

Quite different replies when the OP is written by the person in debt. This person's debt has built up through horses and travel but the result is much the same.

Hope things are going well.

Thanks for that, I can see the similarities but I do think a lot of the replies are mainly concerned with the horse and the way out of the debt. My opinion is that circumstances are quite drastically different when there are children involved. Personally for me the lies have been the biggest issue given that he’s had ample opportunity to tell me over the years and I have asked outright several times about debt, credit cards and finances and been lied to over and over.

the kicker for me has always been the lies and never the money. The fact he has lived his life with a single man mindset and not part of our team and my partner.

knowing now that he only goes to taxi to pay of debt that accrued by spending it on absolute shite for himself is killing me, tonight both our children cried when he left the house and he got stressed and tense when he was later going out to work than he wanted to as we popped in to a friends and stayed for longer than he expected.

my advice to that other thread would be vastly different to the advice I would give to a partner of someone in debt who was looking for help and reassurance.

How is he a brilliant Dad?
He's got the family into debt selfishly spending on himself.
He is out taxiing for himself, not the family.
His children barely see him.
I think you need to be thinking of yourself and your children, not this extremely selfish liar who has lied to your face year in, year out.

Now he wants you to take control and fix it?
How can that be all you want in a partner?
You and your children deserve so much better than this.