Husband ran up debt

[deirdrechilly]

He’s just told me he has 21k of debt. He told me last week it was 7k which came as a shock as I thought it was 5k a few years back and he was working to clear it (like myself who also had 5k and has been working to clear it)

When we met 20 years ago he had 30-40k of debt, lived with his parents and drove a bucket of shit car. No designer clothes or expensive habits, nothing to show for it other than nights out and poor money management.

He took out an IVA to clear it and also a second job. It was cleared he quit the second job and we were finally debt free, built up credit and finally able to buy a house.

then tonight he tells me this. It’s built up over 10 years he says. Nothing to show for it.

i also had debt when we met, had a DMP, and learned from it. Have achieved several promotions in my career and found out last week I’m soon to be getting a promotion that comes with a 17k pay rise bringing me on to 61k per year. This is still sinking in for me, I left school at 15 with no aspirations, got saddled with debt from my first relationship, spent years working two jobs myself and finally felt as though I was winning at life last week. I was excited to look at new houses as have been wanting to move, he mentioned consolidating credit card/loans. I said oh what do you have left I only have 2.5k on mine. He said 7k I was a bit shocked and it’s been on my mind. On one card he said, just not managing to survive despite working 2 jobs (he was adamant he wanted to work a second job again about 5 years ago for extra income)

clearly our finances are separate, with his 2nd job we were earning roughly the same until 6 months ago when I got a pay rise.

we have our own accounts and send money to a joint account for bills. His 2nd job is taxiing so he needed to take out a loan for his car, he pays that himself (don’t know if this is fair or not I could never decide)

we fight the odd time when times are tough money wise and I say right let’s sort this out and show me your outgoings and we can see if it’s fair. he thinks he pays out more than me, he is shit with money but I didn’t think to this degree.

i don’t know his taxi earnings, we pay joint bills and the rest is divided up so he pays petrol usually and some groceries and I cover majority of household stuff and anything for the kids as I shop more and enjoy it.

im hurt. Im angry. I feel so deceived. I feel so stupid. I feel sorry for myself that my big pay rise is going to be spent sorting his mess out.

I don’t know if I’m being over dramatic or not - he will tell me I am.

this only came about because he has pissed me off today for other reasons and I know he always avoids showing me his finances. I wanted to sort out money to see what kind of mortgage we could get and after he told me he had debt I wanted to know the full picture. He said he took his credit card off his Apple pay but I saw him use it today. He has at least 3 on there - yes I looked and I’m glad I did as it set the ball rolling for me to find this out today.

im sorry this is long. I’ve left the house to clear my head and I’m literally digesting this as I type.

any advice welcome. Am I the asshole for being dramatic, is this that big a deal? Who clears it?

how do I work out finances now?

he tool charge of the mortgage renewal 2 years ago, the next door neighbour is a mortgage advisor and must know all this yet I’m in the dark. I was getting a hard time for how many times I shop a week I’m in home bargains ffs

there is no gambling issues, I’ve never suspected this and he’s told me there isn’t but it’s something I will be checking to make sure. I just think he lives outside his means and has shit money management.

and tonight before this came out I was accused of being a bully coz I told him to stop acting like a manchild

He will do it again. And again. Because that's who he is. Sorry, but it's true.

He was feigning a panic attack when you were having a go about the balance transfer fees?
He explained all of his spending as "only" this and "only" that. He doesn't see what he's done as wrong and it will happen again.
You said you thought he was savvy with credit cards transferring balances to avoid fees etc, but he was has having a "panic attack" when you reminded him of stuff he should already know.
This doesn't display a man who knows his finances as you previously thought. It shows a man who prefers to bury his head in the sand and tries to deflect the attention from his careless and neglectful actions by calling on fake dramatic health scares.
He built up debt by himself, due to sheer ignorance. This wasn't due to big addictions like gambling or drugs, this was less obvious and disguised as every day spends that he tried to normalise. I suppose you could say this is his addiction in not being able to spend within his means.
How did he think he could repay these debts back? He was let off lightly last time. Perhaps he thought he would he let off again.
He didn't learn before. What makes you think he has learnt this time?

Meanwhile you have worked tirelessly in your own career whilst paying off your own previous small debt. He went to sleep every night knowing that whilst you were reducing yours, he was adding to his. And he was fine with this.

You're efforts have ensured that you are practically debt free now. You have just been awarded a big pay increase for your work efforts, and you are looking forward upgrading to a bigger house for your family.

He is literally a burden on you and your family.

It’s a huge amount but it comes to just £175 over spend a month over ten years.
less if you account for interest. That is in no way to excuse him but might explain why he has nothing to show and potentially this is going to be harder to curb

I am glad you have taken charge of the situation because at first I was alarmed about your comments about him taking over the mortgage.

He is not ‘financially savvy’ by having a mortgage adviser friend or shifting his debt about to avoid charges. ‘Financially savvy’ is having a budget, sticking to it, and gradually building up wealth with a pension, savings, investments and mortgage equity.

It’s also about being aware that a sudden shock such as redundancy, massive increases in inflation leading to BoE base rate changes, can turn ‘keeping heads above water’ to ‘drowning in financial commitments’.

As you are married, you are linked financially. I think you both need to see a financial adviser, sorting things out once and for all and having a better financial goal. Your children will need support with rent at university, for example, could you afford that? What if your windows need replacing?

Honestly I couldn’t live like this.

As per up thread - it’s been 20 yrs he won’t change most likely and now he has ZERO impetus to… because now when it happens again (& it will) it’ll be “your fault” because you were supposed to be watching him/ checking monitoring.

He’s taking no accountability he’s just dumped all his stress worry and panic attacks on you and is blissfully wandering on with his life.
where is your anger? You aren’t taking his kids away / leaving the marriage. he has blown up his own life

Just the fact that he tells lies would be enough for me. My ex husband did this, what he'd consider little white lies and was shit with money. It meant I wasn't able to give my kids the lifestyle that I wanted to.

A lot of these weren't white lies, and I've recently discovered more about him that he hid behind his 'Mr Nice Guy' persona. The kids are now adults, and they've got sick of his shit and have cut him off as he lied, broke promises, as well as finding out he was led by his dick. I got shot of him nearly ten years ago and my life is infinitely better.

Your outgoings will shrink if you leave him, and you'll probably find yourself better off financially if it's just you and the kids. Do it now, whilst they're small. I was with him for nearly twenty years and I should have called time much sooner.

The only way you can stay together is if you take over his finances and he has a allowance.

Does he have PayPal?

When you break it down
20k over 10 years is roughly 40 a week
which isn’t a lot

but he’s stupid for letting it get that high in the first place

It’s not a lot week to week, but it’s accumulated into £20k with no plan to pay it off. And it not being a lot week to week means it should have been easy to either reduce outgoings or increase income to cover it. Instead he’s used credit cards like free money and the OP is left picking up the pieces.

OP, you said earlier that he ‘lies about everything’. I think that’s something you need to tackle, especially if you don’t want this to happen again.

Years ago, I was with a man like that. He had a disordered childhood with very strict parents so he learned early on that if he didn’t want to get into trouble, it was easiest to lie. He no longer even knew what the truth was. One time he was really late getting to my house and when I asked him what happened, he concocted this weird story about being stuck behind a car full of grannies. Truth is, he’d left the house late but for some reason he just couldn’t say that. In the end, lying was so second nature to him that he found it effortless to lie about the big stuff too.

It seems your DH is lying about about small stuff, lying about his lifestyle (pretending he has more than he does) and also lying about the scale of his debt as well as ‘lies by omission’ (not telling you really important stuff you need to know). That’s a big issue.

Exactly
he was stupid to let it get that high and have nothing to show for it
he should have easily paid that off each month

Thanks, yes I’ve been looking into some sort of financial understanding help/education for him. He just doesn’t see the impact of all these wee purchases that add up.

he does understand what he’s done. He said it spiralled he couldn’t tell me, it got worse, he thought he could get out of it but I’ve very clearly pointed out to him he wasn’t doing anything to get out of it.

This is a really accurate summary apart from the panic attacks. That was genuine, he is on heart/blood pressure medication and I could see this was taking its toll on him. He’s genuinely sorry but that doesn’t stop the fact he is an irresponsible immature idiot (for want of a much better word) I went through the statements and queried them, having a go about different things and he was starting to see the real picture and he want coping with it. I think he does have a slight addiction to spending but he doesn’t have anything?? He doesn’t buy himself clothes, doesn’t smoke, drinks very rarely. At one point we had every tv subscription going, everything else is Tesco, and just everyday spending. I don’t know if I’d have preferred a big massive purchase in place of 20k of absolute shit

Thanks this def makes sense. I hadn’t even calculated it like that. It has spiralled over time and then charges for moving balances have added up as well

Sadly when you get married you generally share debt accrued during marriage. Same as sharing earnings accrued during marriage. There can be exceptions, but that's the double edged sword of marriage: you share a lot of stuff, including debt.

I would urge you to get yourself some legal advice as to which debts are his own versus yours.

Alas you knew he had problems with money when you married him - it's a great shame you haven't been checking your credit score and joint debts every year. Usually one has to trust the behaviour that other people show us - and in this case your partner seems to hae big time issues with throwing away money. And now there is the additional trust issue: he did all of this without telling you, which begs the question of what else he's doing that he's not telling you, and what the heck he's been spending that money on.

Most important thing at the moment is to insulate yourself from the disaster that is his finances - so you need legal and financial advice.

Sorry this is happening to you - hopefully you take the steps needed to make sure that you aren't involved with this nonsense at all going forward.

If you are going to take charge of his finances is his taxi work PAYE or self employed? If the latter is he up to date with taxes?

Yes wrong choice of words, I certainly thought he was savvy in getting the best deal if and when needed but clearly not in terms of being a financially responsible adult.

I was all excited last week about reducing my working hours once we had benefited from my pay rise, looking forward to having a pot for the kids for when needed and yeah for new windows but it’s all out the window now till this is sorted

with regards to the mortgage I’ve yet to go over the details but he 100% assures me he hasn’t consolidated any debt and it was just mortgage to mortgage. He knows I will check and will hit the roof if he’s lied. Again.

I am so sorry OP that your own financial progress is being marred by this shocking behaviour. it’s a big achievement for you and I’m sorry it’s not bringing the freedom (yet) that you deserve.

DH needs to know that this is unacceptable and that actions have consequences. Do not back down to him saying you’re a bully or treating him like a child - you are a (the) responsible adult in your family and he is behaving irresponsibly. He is simply trying to shift blame.

Is this an opportunity to get a real handle on household finances? As you’ve had such a pay bump it’s definitely worth getting some clarity on goals / budgets etc - for you, your kids and your family inc Dp.

Oh please believe that I am angry and he knows it. I gave him all the home truths last night and it’s less about the money and more about the fact he has lied. The type of person he is in every aspect of his life and the fact it has snowballed into this. His communication is pathetic and he is emotionally immature. He knows this. I told him that for the last few years I’ve struggled with our relationship for many reasons and this has just been the final straw but I’m also fully aware that he could easily become overwhelmed with this and think there is no way out. He is well insured and tells me often he’s worth a fortune when he goes. I wouldn’t consider him to be in any way depressed or suicidal but it’s something that I’m very aware of at the minute. It’s done, the money’s been spent. It’s time to fix it and he will not be let off lightly. He knows the impact this has on our family, me and our poor kids. I made sure he knew exactly what I think of him.

You can't live like that, policing him. He killed the relationship. Him. He has done it again and again. To me, this betrayal is just as bad as an affair.

As for needing to stand over this pathetic weasel cleaning the bathroom, ridiculous.

Divorce him. You will spend your LIFE babying him. His life is not more important than yours. You don't need to help him for fear of his suicide.

@deirdrechilly I'm so sorry
I have been in exactly the same situation and my ex did it again...not to say that yours will, but mine certainly did.
Exactly the same, no major purchases, just day to day shit.
I also didn't want to be his keeper and thought it would erode our relationship if I was to do that.
But ultimately what happened I think was that my lack of trust and respect (he was such a smooth liar it sickened me) eroded our relationship anyway, and ironically he ended up leaving me!
I'm not out of the woods yet but can see it's for the best in the long run.

Yeah absolutely, I need to go through every single thing now and get a real idea of where finances are. He’s been given the link the Martin Lewis budget spreadsheet and told to fill it in as well as details every bit of debt, 0% offer end dates etc and it will be printed out so he can see exactly where his money goes. I’ve sang his praises to everyone for years for working in the taxi saying he does that for us to afford childcare, everyone assumes he’s the main earner doing all this for his family. What a joke. Yet all the while I have been querying money as we’ve had steady pay rises and I had my last promotion 1.5 years ago with a decent pay rise yet we didn’t seem to be any better off. I felt like I was able to go out shopping but he was struggling even more. I tried to organise finances then to make it fair but like everything he brushed it under the carpet.

i have the child benefit paid into a separate account only in my name and we both top it up with £50 each a month. It was meant to be our wee savings pot but it gets used all the time - he has no access to it and it has bothered him a lot over the years now I know why - I am the one who happily transfers if we booked flights to visit family, needed a new pram, car seat, xmas, bdays etc. It never increases very much as there’s always something he needs to be reimbursed for, usually his car which is an unexpected cost and I’ve queried if working in the taxi is worth it by the time he pays out for car maintenance, insurance is high etc. he’s in a very deep hole of shuffling money around. I’m now terrified to see if his income even touches his outgoings. Everything he paid in a month now comes to me, I don’t live outside my means. I buy everything on special offer and sell my old clothes on vinted if I want to buy more. I don’t think we could be any more financially different

I think your last sentence is easier said than done in reality but yes I don’t want to police him. I told him that. He looked so relieved to hand over his cards which he cut up and for me to just take charge of all the money he said. I said I would help him because I have no choice but I don’t m own what I want to do yet. He is the type to throw things back in my face and this is a long road ahead of us of me policing him.

he couldn’t afford to move out. He couldn’t afford to live on his own and he doesn’t speak with his family - his poor money habits come from them. Yes it would be so easy to just cut ties but it’s my kids dad and I married him.

if I was in this position I would want someone to take charge and help me. He’s drowning. Everyone makes mistakes. He’s not forgiven by any means but I’m desperately trying to be level headed here and not letting my anger make decisions that aren’t needed

It sounds like an addiction, in which case getting some therapy might help him understand and thus deal with it from the roots.
Sorry you're going through this, it's awful.

Sorry to hear this, I don’t think there will ever be trust again. I’ve been fed up in the marriage for a long time for other reasons and this has really cemented the fact that it’s been a shit show of a marriage really.

I just don’t understand how he got out of all the debt and done it again. I’ve been so stupid and I should have checked in long before now but I’ve asked him repeatedly over the years about debt and he’s looked me in the eye and said he didn’t have any/more than I thought.