Husband ran up debt

[deirdrechilly]

He’s just told me he has 21k of debt. He told me last week it was 7k which came as a shock as I thought it was 5k a few years back and he was working to clear it (like myself who also had 5k and has been working to clear it)

When we met 20 years ago he had 30-40k of debt, lived with his parents and drove a bucket of shit car. No designer clothes or expensive habits, nothing to show for it other than nights out and poor money management.

He took out an IVA to clear it and also a second job. It was cleared he quit the second job and we were finally debt free, built up credit and finally able to buy a house.

then tonight he tells me this. It’s built up over 10 years he says. Nothing to show for it.

i also had debt when we met, had a DMP, and learned from it. Have achieved several promotions in my career and found out last week I’m soon to be getting a promotion that comes with a 17k pay rise bringing me on to 61k per year. This is still sinking in for me, I left school at 15 with no aspirations, got saddled with debt from my first relationship, spent years working two jobs myself and finally felt as though I was winning at life last week. I was excited to look at new houses as have been wanting to move, he mentioned consolidating credit card/loans. I said oh what do you have left I only have 2.5k on mine. He said 7k I was a bit shocked and it’s been on my mind. On one card he said, just not managing to survive despite working 2 jobs (he was adamant he wanted to work a second job again about 5 years ago for extra income)

clearly our finances are separate, with his 2nd job we were earning roughly the same until 6 months ago when I got a pay rise.

we have our own accounts and send money to a joint account for bills. His 2nd job is taxiing so he needed to take out a loan for his car, he pays that himself (don’t know if this is fair or not I could never decide)

we fight the odd time when times are tough money wise and I say right let’s sort this out and show me your outgoings and we can see if it’s fair. he thinks he pays out more than me, he is shit with money but I didn’t think to this degree.

i don’t know his taxi earnings, we pay joint bills and the rest is divided up so he pays petrol usually and some groceries and I cover majority of household stuff and anything for the kids as I shop more and enjoy it.

im hurt. Im angry. I feel so deceived. I feel so stupid. I feel sorry for myself that my big pay rise is going to be spent sorting his mess out.

I don’t know if I’m being over dramatic or not - he will tell me I am.

this only came about because he has pissed me off today for other reasons and I know he always avoids showing me his finances. I wanted to sort out money to see what kind of mortgage we could get and after he told me he had debt I wanted to know the full picture. He said he took his credit card off his Apple pay but I saw him use it today. He has at least 3 on there - yes I looked and I’m glad I did as it set the ball rolling for me to find this out today.

im sorry this is long. I’ve left the house to clear my head and I’m literally digesting this as I type.

any advice welcome. Am I the asshole for being dramatic, is this that big a deal? Who clears it?

how do I work out finances now?

he tool charge of the mortgage renewal 2 years ago, the next door neighbour is a mortgage advisor and must know all this yet I’m in the dark. I was getting a hard time for how many times I shop a week I’m in home bargains ffs

there is no gambling issues, I’ve never suspected this and he’s told me there isn’t but it’s something I will be checking to make sure. I just think he lives outside his means and has shit money management.

and tonight before this came out I was accused of being a bully coz I told him to stop acting like a manchild

I need to know where it’s gone

Yes you do, but since you now know he's a habitual liar I doubt finding out will be easy, and pushing for details will result in you being called dramatic again and worse - and that's before you get to the issue of what else he's not told you

I get your reluctance to split the family, but in all honesty what's the alternative given his attitude? As a very wise friend once said to me "If there's no trust there's no relationship", and with the way this is going you stand every chance of getting dragged down with him

@Phoebesparrowomg that is awful, what a horrible person. Your poor dp having to deal with that, sort it out and it happened again and again.

I feel naive for letting it happen and for considering staying. I don’t know what my finances look like as a single parent though and I know he won’t survive. Financially and literally.

@PluckyChanceryeah I have wasted a lot of my years on a marriage I’m not always happy with and now this. I am a fool you’re right. I just don’t see how I can do this to the kids. But I’m fully aware of the fact I need to protect them - if he is a single dad I have no control over what he does and therefore what they see. I see the likeness to an alcoholic, there’s definitely a compulsion there

I live for Martin’s Tuesday emails, I couldn’t betray him like that!

@Jellycatspyjamasgood point about him letting his behaviour drop, if he thinks I’m done shouting he will start to behave differently.

it is such a busy week, have tight deadlines in work too. There’s nothing I can fix in a week anyway, I need to do my research on best way forward and I want to see every single transaction because if I find something from years ago that I don’t like then it changes everything. I’m aware I’ve seen the last 4 months only. I need time to look at it all.

@Hankunamatata thanks for this, interesting you say about adhd I often mention it to him as I think he has a lot of traits and didn’t think about this.

Cards all cut up last night.

he wants to move his wages to joint account but I don’t know how I want to do it yet. I don’t want joint account being used for his spending. I like it clear so separate works for me - he has no say over it this is just what he was thinking would happen as he’s thought about telling me for a while so he says.

I made him give me credit report login last night and have looked at it already with intention of using this to monitor him overall - this is my best bet for anything new and shouldn’t get past this if he does anything sneaky?

thanks for great advice

For the purpose of any future split, you should continue to keep your finances as separated as possible, so good decision re no to joint account

he wants to move his wages to joint account but I don’t know how I want to do it yet. I don’t want joint account being used for his spending. I like it clear so separate works for me - he has no say over it this is just what he was thinking would happen as he’s thought about telling me for a while so he says.

I’d have him pay his salary in and then give him an amount for his daily/weekly spending (with you having the same amount). Nothing gets spent from the joint account and when he runs out of money he’s done. Remove card access to the joint account and keep a close eye on him transferring money out to other accounts. It’s going to be painful for you both, but it sounds painful anyway.

@deirdrechilly , this one really stands out to me. This behaviour from my teenagers gives me the absolute rage and I let them know. I cannot comprehend putting up with it from a full grown adult who is meant to be my life partner. Blatant lies about unimportant shit because he can’t own up to his selfish, lazy actions? This would be an absolute relationship killer for me.

I’ve read all of your other responses. I don’t think this relationship is serving you, and in the long term I don’t think it’s serving your children either.

my sister’s ex is like this with money, and at 55 still does not have two pennies to rub together. To the point that he had to borrow money from friends to fly to his brother’s funeral last year, and when his son recently asked for money to attend a sports carnival, he said it was his car registration money. People like this won’t change, can’t be helped, and will just drag you down.

Be aware that it's probably not just one credit report you will need access to. Not all the lenders report to all the agencies. You need reports from all of the credit refs for a full picture, not to miss anything.

I made him give me credit report login last night and have looked at it already with intention of using this to monitor him overall - this is my best bet for anything new and shouldn’t get past this if he does anything sneaky?

The other thing you could do is institute a weekly/monthly “money meeting” where you both sit down and plan expenditure for the month and check each week that you’re on track. It can be a sit down with a glass of wine where you create a written budget (MSE has a great template) and then reconcile your accounts against the budget and adjust as needed. It would help you not feel like you’re carrying it all, open lines of communication between you and give him a standing weekly opportunity to tell you if he’s going off track. You really need joint accountability on this.

Having a weekly personal pot for individual spending will hopefully also help you ease up on being so frugal with yourself to his benefit.

You have my sympathies. I just couldn't be with a man who was sneaky about financials or lies about debt.

It seems like you are going up and up and he is a lead weight dragging you back down. Are you willing to keep wiping his bum for him forever more?

I want to see every single transaction because if I find something from years ago that I don’t like then it changes everything. I’m aware I’ve seen the last 4 months only. I need time to look at it all

But he's not going to offer it all, @deirdrechilly, especially as he's still been using cards he said were cancelled, and "cutting them up" is just pointless theatre from someone who can easily get more

And of course he now wants a joint account so he can spend yours too, so it would be utterly stupid to even consider it

If you mean it about protecting the children and yourself I'm afraid it seems there's only one way to go, and I really wouldn't worry about his survival, financial or otherwise
A man like this will quickly find someone else to leach off, but at least he wouldn't be your problem any more

@Jellycatspyjamas thanks this is a good idea re sitting down weekly, although I do already have my own account, I try and save money each month and have built up a very very small emergency pot while he’s been building up debt.

it needs to be done but I am really resenting the fact I’m now responsible for all the spending, can’t send him to Tesco for bread for fear of what he will buy. Can’t leave him in charge of picking presents. I feel like me needs to be scared to spend any money - that’s how I live. I second guess every purchase and question if I need it. Don’t buy crisps etc if they aren’t on offer, go to 5 different shops in a week to get the bargains for all the food everyone likes. It’s mostly on me anyway but now it’s worse.

He’s ruined it all. I can’t see a future living like this but I can’t see a future on my own either

I am so sorry you are going through this. You have received a lot if good advice on this thread. I just wanted to add that he won’t change and will probably increase his hostility and lying to you over time. Because that is who he is. You have been with him so long you don’t know what peace and honesty in a relationship looks like. He is an extremely selfish person. He will never put you and the children first—or anywhere near it. Its just not who he is.

"A man like this will quickly find someone else to leach off, but at least he wouldn't be your problem any more"

OMG, yes this is unfortunately so very, very true. These people seem to have a gift for worming their way in when they need to!

@Puzzledandpissedoff all fair points. The joint account already exists as a servicing account. We each pay a portion of our wages there and all the joint bills come out of it only. I have my own account for wages and spending as does he. There’s no way I’d have a joint account where he has access to my money. For years I’ve been wary of telling him about my small savings and I’ve lied to him about how much I have because there’s never been trust there. If I have money in my purse (rarely) he knows about it and will suggest I use it to pay for xyz - I’m clearly not aware of his finances and didn’t want to be. It was meant to be his business as the joint bills were sorted so why should I take an interest?? Should have known better

The more you supervise him OP, the more he will come to resent it and just get better at hiding things.

I agree. I already said this last night and m ow exactly how it will go. I just want to get him sorted with some light at the end of the tunnel and then I can think about the future.

He’s ruined it all. I can’t see a future living like this but I can’t see a future on my own either

I honestly think, if you give yourself a bit of time to process, you’ll know where your future lies. It’s very easy for other people to say LTB, but changing track in reality can be very hard and of course love and loyalty complicate things even when the other person hasn’t shown you the same.

Put some controls in place for now, get this week out of the way and try to create some space for yourself. I’d bet my house on you just waking up one morning knowing exactly what you need to do for you. When that happens, wild horses won’t stop you.

Did he cancel all unnecessary subscriptions?
I regards to shopping I thinks he should be put in charge of meal planning and shopping can be done on delivery, no need to go in person.
Chnage in behaviour and habits will take months. He has to be prepared for a very hard slog. Just cutting up cards is not going to do it.

Well you do know better, now. And when you know better, you do better.

Take a moment and take a deep breath. Realistically you are no worse off now that you know the truth. Its painful, definitely, but deep down you know and have always known he was unreliable. Now its out in the open. What do you really want to do?

I’m clearly not aware of his finances and didn’t want to be. It was meant to be his business as the joint bills were sorted so why should I take an interest?? Should have known better

Please don't be so quick to blame yourself, @deirdrechilly; within a long term trusting relationship it's perfectly normal for each partner to deal with different "bits", but unfortunately he's ensured that trust isn't something you've got here

Having been there after a marriage of 30+ years I understand very well that a new life can be scary, but again what's the alternative?

And if that "servicing joint account" bears his name too I'd be very careful around what changes he could make wiith the bank if it comes to a split, considering he's "agreed" to plenty of other things then ignored them.
That includes the possibility he could have takeen out loans in your name without you knowing, so as well as focusing on him I'd suggest a full credit report on yourself

@Puzzledandpissedoff thanks for this, I look at my credit report regularly and checked last night. Everything looks ok.

@pikkumyy77 I honestly don’t know. I feel like i need to get the clearer picture, see where it’s been spent, get an idea of who this man actually is and put together a picture in my head of the last 10 years somehow. Only then can I make a plan for the future. I don’t even know if I want to help him.

he’s been using cards to pay for petrol, shopping, kids McDonald’s so now that all falls to me as seemingly his wages aren’t enough. I don’t know if I’m willing to take that on. If I don’t he will have to do another IVA or similar and will take years to pay it off, I’d have no financial support from him. I don’t even think he could survive with his income and outgoings without factoring in the kids.

He told me months ago he’d want 40k to walk away from the house if we split but where do I even stand now if he’s got debt I’m responsible for. It’s all in his own name not mine but I’m responsible as his wife.

walk away, leave him up shit creek, useless to his kids, in debt up to his eyeballs and me struggling as a single parent with one wage. Despite him having financial responsibilities he couldn’t do it, he wouldn’t know how to so he would be in more debt over and over again. My head is spinning with it all

"where do I even stand now if he’s got debt I’m responsible for. It’s all in his own name not mine but I’m responsible as his wife"

No, you are NOT responsible 'as his wife' whatsoever. Please get some legal advice re division in a split.

He's left himself up shit creek, you don't have to join him.

I'd be asking myself if he's upset because of the debt or because you've found out about the debt

Different circumstances but my ex bil had a breakdown after the break up with his marriage to my sister. He was abusive and this was the reason for the breakdown of the marriage. He said he couldn't cope with being called an abuser no comment on him being abusive or the impact of that abuse on my sister. He was completely and genuinely distraught but not by his actions only being called out on his actions.

He needs to be the one to pull himself out of this, he needs to arrange a meeting with a free debt charity like step change or Christians against poverty. He seems to thrive on deception and the more you control his finances the more opportunities you give him to be deceptive.