Husband ran up debt

[deirdrechilly]

He’s just told me he has 21k of debt. He told me last week it was 7k which came as a shock as I thought it was 5k a few years back and he was working to clear it (like myself who also had 5k and has been working to clear it)

When we met 20 years ago he had 30-40k of debt, lived with his parents and drove a bucket of shit car. No designer clothes or expensive habits, nothing to show for it other than nights out and poor money management.

He took out an IVA to clear it and also a second job. It was cleared he quit the second job and we were finally debt free, built up credit and finally able to buy a house.

then tonight he tells me this. It’s built up over 10 years he says. Nothing to show for it.

i also had debt when we met, had a DMP, and learned from it. Have achieved several promotions in my career and found out last week I’m soon to be getting a promotion that comes with a 17k pay rise bringing me on to 61k per year. This is still sinking in for me, I left school at 15 with no aspirations, got saddled with debt from my first relationship, spent years working two jobs myself and finally felt as though I was winning at life last week. I was excited to look at new houses as have been wanting to move, he mentioned consolidating credit card/loans. I said oh what do you have left I only have 2.5k on mine. He said 7k I was a bit shocked and it’s been on my mind. On one card he said, just not managing to survive despite working 2 jobs (he was adamant he wanted to work a second job again about 5 years ago for extra income)

clearly our finances are separate, with his 2nd job we were earning roughly the same until 6 months ago when I got a pay rise.

we have our own accounts and send money to a joint account for bills. His 2nd job is taxiing so he needed to take out a loan for his car, he pays that himself (don’t know if this is fair or not I could never decide)

we fight the odd time when times are tough money wise and I say right let’s sort this out and show me your outgoings and we can see if it’s fair. he thinks he pays out more than me, he is shit with money but I didn’t think to this degree.

i don’t know his taxi earnings, we pay joint bills and the rest is divided up so he pays petrol usually and some groceries and I cover majority of household stuff and anything for the kids as I shop more and enjoy it.

im hurt. Im angry. I feel so deceived. I feel so stupid. I feel sorry for myself that my big pay rise is going to be spent sorting his mess out.

I don’t know if I’m being over dramatic or not - he will tell me I am.

this only came about because he has pissed me off today for other reasons and I know he always avoids showing me his finances. I wanted to sort out money to see what kind of mortgage we could get and after he told me he had debt I wanted to know the full picture. He said he took his credit card off his Apple pay but I saw him use it today. He has at least 3 on there - yes I looked and I’m glad I did as it set the ball rolling for me to find this out today.

im sorry this is long. I’ve left the house to clear my head and I’m literally digesting this as I type.

any advice welcome. Am I the asshole for being dramatic, is this that big a deal? Who clears it?

how do I work out finances now?

he tool charge of the mortgage renewal 2 years ago, the next door neighbour is a mortgage advisor and must know all this yet I’m in the dark. I was getting a hard time for how many times I shop a week I’m in home bargains ffs

there is no gambling issues, I’ve never suspected this and he’s told me there isn’t but it’s something I will be checking to make sure. I just think he lives outside his means and has shit money management.

and tonight before this came out I was accused of being a bully coz I told him to stop acting like a manchild

But he's done this before, had it all sorted out, and straight done it again.

You are not responsible for him. He demonstrates contempt for you in the way he acts and communicates.

Why do you want your children to see their mother constantly having the piss taken out of her? Do you want them to be attracted to similar weak-willed, lying and cheating partners?

He most probably will be able to see his card details on his online banking and being able to readd them to his apple pay to continue using them.
Nowadays cutting up credit cards is almost a meaningless gesture.

I think he def does need therapy it’s been discussed for both of us to get marriage counselling over the years as we don’t communicate - no surprise there.

I think it’s like an addiction, maybe a compulsion? I don’t know. He is the type of person that can get wound up if he thinks someone is rubbing his face in it about having it all, does this make sense? Like a friend of ours I call ‘elevenerife’ coz if you’ve been to Tenerife he’s been to elevenerife. He has to bum and blow about everything he has and my husband can get his back up at times about how he can have this that and the other too? I couldn’t care less about things like that but I don’t think my husband can see he is like this.

@PeapodMcgeeyou’re right and before all this I have preached about him being a good male role model for his son and setting a high standard for his daughter and future partners for both of them. We’re a piss poor example of a marriage to them. It makes me so sad.

im not responsible for him but im having to take charge of this for the bigger picture and i hate him for it. I haven’t even processed it all yet. I have nothing but resentment for him and I don’t know if I have the energy to survive the next few years of paying this off.

I don’t hold grudges but I don’t forget things and I just don’t know if I will be able to ever see past this. The lies and deceit. He’s destroyed us.

@Superscientistthanks I didn’t think of that. Once I have all the details I want to see about consolidating into one big card with one payment for a long term so the balance transfer fees aren’t hitting every few months. Reading online I don’t think a loan is the way to go but I need to get my head round it all. I have a really busy week ahead so can’t even give this my full attention until next week

Op, is there any chance your DH uses cocaine to get through his shifts etc? I see it very commonly with taxi drivers as my friend works as a taxi caller and she says around 1/3 of them use class a drugs to get through unsociable shifts and perk them up ( which is horrific). You are focusing all this on the credit card debt but where are his actual WAGES from two jobs going? Because if his daily spending is on credit cards and averages £175 a month, what is he spending his actual earnings from two jobs on? After all, you say yourself it’s the Savings pot that pays for taxi repairs. Have you verified the cost of the bills that go from the joint account to make sure he’s not skimming from the top?

Don't take on his debt, you are not responsible for any unsecured debt in his name. Whatever you do, do NOT take out a card or loan on your own name, to consolidate it all.

I think you need to get legal advice from a debt charity today. Check the charges register on your title deeds (you can pay £7 to do this online), check your own credit file.

Do NOT put his personal debt in yoir name! You do not need to fix this for him.

I would bet the house that he knew that when he cut them up though!
He's doing a dance that makes it look like he's taking this seriously you are going to have to look really careful to see past his facade and get to the details. From what you have said I would bet he only tells you what he thinks is necessary and over the coming weeks more will slip out that he's forgotten or too "ashamed" to tell you.

I see us a family unit

But it seems he doesn't.

There's no way you should sacrifice your raise to his debt.

I left my ex husband over this.

if I was in this position I would want someone to take charge and help me. He’s drowning. Everyone makes mistakes. He’s not forgiven by any means but I’m desperately trying to be level headed here and not letting my anger make decisions that aren’t needed

I think it’s important not to make long term decisions when emotions are running high, I also know sometimes anger can be a great motivator for changing a situation that has become untenable. Only you know where you are on that path.

The one thing I would say is that he doesn’t get to throw things in your face. You’re in this situation because if him, and his decision making. Regardless of the motivation - addiction, shame, whatever - he as an adult made the daily decision over many years to run up debt, hide it and lie about it. That daily decision has consequences including you not being able to trust him and needing to check and quiz him about finances. He either accepts that or agrees to take all his debt and live as a single man and sort himself out.

@OnyourbarksGSGno I don’t suspect this at all. He’s never taken drugs and I know we have an issue here with lies but it’s not his thing. He works until 2am usually never anything crazy, I’ve moaned for a long time about him working too much as I thought it was unnecessary. We have a friend just out of rehab and if he was using I would know about it for various reasons, one being this friend is never on the scene and avoids us at all costs. He doesn't lift cash and his taxi fares are cashless, paid via bank transfer no cash at all. He can tell me every transaction and it’s all legit, Tesco, sky sports, petrol, it’s worrying me that we may not even be able to survive as there is no extravagant purchases. I’ve only recently started using the savings pot for his car. It’s been a bone of contention him having to pay out for the car all the time but telling me it’s worth it and we need the money. Nothing ever added up.

10 years ago I was on less than half the pay I am now, this is before my big promotion, he was a slightly higher earner then 5 years ago he started to taxi meaning he was making a decent wage and the main earner. I’ve had a few promotions in the last 10 years bringing my wages to a decent amount more than his today. I’d say the majority of this has build up prior to the taxi when our household income was half what it is now, then it’s just been shuffled about ever since

I’d also take a look at Dave Ramseys baby steps. It’s very Americanised and has a bit too much God for my liking but the principles are very sound and give a good road map for getting straightened out financially.

@PeapodMcgeei thought about it in order to get the best offers and deals to pay it back but i wont. I’m done taking the brunt of it and I don’t want this on me.

im a bridesmaid this week, i have so much to organise and sort i literally cannot give this any more brain space than i have for now. I am going to show up looking like a zombie, I’ve had zero sleep and feel sick with worry but good to know about the deeds thing

@Superscientisti dont know. He was in a state last night and I know it was genuine. He was upset and he isn’t the type to turn it on. He never cries. But yes I’m certainly not going to be trusting anything and will be doing full checks of everything

Please be careful. If he has a habit of lying (and those white lies that you say are his only lies - these are only the ones you know, or have found out, about), then he may just have convinced himself that he's going to do it right this time.

But the reality will kick in and the not being able to just indulge himself whenever he wants will bite and he will start to resent you for having control of his money. Which might lead to further lies.

Be very careful.

You’re a fool if you stay with him.

He’s not being completely honest with himself, let alone with you. He’s not a child so you shouldn’t be treating him as one. He’s an adult who needs to take full responsibility for his failures to manage his money properly.

He’s no different to an alcoholic who will promise the moon to keep his family together, but in a very short space of time he will start to slip back into his old ways. You’ve solved his current problem again so he’s free to carry on as before.

How many years of your life are you willing to waste to keep paying off his debts whilst waiting for the next financial bombshell? This was my poor mum and she was forever hoping he’d change, but why would he when she kept bailing him out all the time?

Dps ex wife did this

They have two dds and she insisted on everything they owned/played with/came into the house had to be brand new

That's her (it wasn't his) choice,but she quit work and was bored as a sahm

So she went shopping-a lot of shopping and ran up debts of about 18k behind his back

They cleared it all off and he warned her if she did it again,that would be it

He said he was to be in full control of their money (and budgeted for them) but she managed to get credit somehow (I'm not clear on the finer details,i think it was catalogues,mail order and signing him up for credit under his name which is fraud)

She ran up another 45k (she 'borrowed' 10k from my mil as part of this 45k) and laughed when dp found out about it while telling them both 'it's his problem now'

He left her and ended up divorcing her after sorting out her debts (again) and she's now drowning again but doesn't have him to help her out again (as part of the smear campaign,it's all his fault)

I'd get out now,the same thing will happen again and again

@Jellycatspyjamasabsolutely and for the time being I know he’s on his best behaviour, the bathroom has never been cleaner but I don’t know how long he has it in him to keep this up so I’m biding my time. I’ll help him and i will make him aware of everything that I’m doing but I don’t know how long I’m willing to do that either. At the minute I’m firefighting to see the full picture and do what I can.

I’ve sang his praises to everyone for years for working in the taxi saying he does that for us to afford childcare, everyone assumes he’s the main earner doing all this for his family

Why on earth have you been doing this while in the background you’re worrying about money and querying why you’re no better off?

I’d be swiftly disabusing everyone of the notion that Billy Big Balls is working 2 jobs, being the great provider. I don’t understand why you were bigging him up in the first place, knowing it didn’t add up.

If you’re going to sort this out as adults, next week(!) then some thoughts:-

• You can consider a remortgage with consolidation and that might offer a cheaper rate vs credit card debt. IF you go down this route he needs to commit to counselling as the solution involves security against the family home
• cancel every and all subscriptions - even the ‘just £20 on the lotto’
• cancel the holidays other than those you expressly agree to
• its infantilizing but can you just get him a prepaid card with £100 emergency money? All snacks etc etc come from a bit supermarket shop at home - no whims
• hes got a loan for the car for the taxi work - does the spend on that ‘wash its own face’ and is the car otherwise useful? I’m making an assumption based on nothing here but is this quite a nice car with the taxiing as an excuse to have it? A lot of Tesla’s have cropped up near me…
• with your additional income I think you should pay yourself first and prepare for the what ifs. I know your instinct will be to pay down the debt (and Martin Lewis is correct that this is a more efficient way of using money) BUT you need to think about pots for yourself and your kids if you do end up in a scenario where you do split.

Thank fuck you're not putting any of his debt in your name. Please don't be tempted. Martin Lewis would read you the riot act! 🤣

Give yourself and your kids a fair change at life. He is a poor excuse for a man, overspending probably every month, keeping you in the dark about finances, he won't sit down and try to work through it together. You'd be better off without him dragging you and your dc down. I'd ask for a divorce. I'd point him in direction of debt counselling and get financially separated from him avsap.

@Vroomfondleswaistcoati agree. I think he will start to resent me. He’s famous for brushing major arguments under the rug and not resolving issues or taking my feelings into account in order to resolve conflict and he will hate that i will
not let this go or stop talking about it. He knows that I’ll suffer for this. I have a big birthday coming up and he’s worked so much in his taxi, seemingly to pay for an extravagant celebration, that I told him I don’t want to do anything for it anymore. I would rather have his time back over the next few months than a lavish present or expensive trip. That was before I found out about this.

i do worry about what this living arrangement will look like for years to come - if I make the decision to stick it out. He’s spent his whole adult life in debt and worked hard to clear the IVA but that was before kids and he does struggle with the family responsibilities, I have to remind him
often that we are an ‘us/we’ not ‘i’

It sounds like you’ve got a busy week without all this, there’s nothing screamingly urgent and you have deeper, long term issues in your marriage. It’s completely reasonable to take some time to enjoy being a bridesmaid, and look at it all when you have both headspace and a clearer picture of what you’re dealing with.

Cynically it also gives your husband a bit of relief, where he might feel safe enough to let his “best behaviour” drop and give you a sense of whether he really does get the gravity of the situation and is serious about making much needed changes.

IF you want the relationship to continue then you take control of all the money.

This is what I did when we were in similar situation in our early marriage (I will say though me dh does have adhd so I could see why it had gone wrong)

He cuts all his cards up and goes for one basic bank account.
He transferrs all wages to you except his spending money.
He gives you full excess to his credit report and you check it weekly.
You work out a plan together to pay everything off and for the bill and you supervise, pay all the bills (in reality this is setting up dd and so once and then monitoring them)

"You can consider a remortgage with consolidation and that might offer a cheaper rate vs credit card debt"

Abysmal advice! The debt then legally becomes OP's if they were to split up. At the moment, as the debt is hopefully just in his name, she cannot be chased for it.

It’s also then secured against the house - never ever turn unsecured debt into secured debt. It also clears the decks so DH can just go and run up the credit cards again.