Husband ran up debt

[deirdrechilly]

He’s just told me he has 21k of debt. He told me last week it was 7k which came as a shock as I thought it was 5k a few years back and he was working to clear it (like myself who also had 5k and has been working to clear it)

When we met 20 years ago he had 30-40k of debt, lived with his parents and drove a bucket of shit car. No designer clothes or expensive habits, nothing to show for it other than nights out and poor money management.

He took out an IVA to clear it and also a second job. It was cleared he quit the second job and we were finally debt free, built up credit and finally able to buy a house.

then tonight he tells me this. It’s built up over 10 years he says. Nothing to show for it.

i also had debt when we met, had a DMP, and learned from it. Have achieved several promotions in my career and found out last week I’m soon to be getting a promotion that comes with a 17k pay rise bringing me on to 61k per year. This is still sinking in for me, I left school at 15 with no aspirations, got saddled with debt from my first relationship, spent years working two jobs myself and finally felt as though I was winning at life last week. I was excited to look at new houses as have been wanting to move, he mentioned consolidating credit card/loans. I said oh what do you have left I only have 2.5k on mine. He said 7k I was a bit shocked and it’s been on my mind. On one card he said, just not managing to survive despite working 2 jobs (he was adamant he wanted to work a second job again about 5 years ago for extra income)

clearly our finances are separate, with his 2nd job we were earning roughly the same until 6 months ago when I got a pay rise.

we have our own accounts and send money to a joint account for bills. His 2nd job is taxiing so he needed to take out a loan for his car, he pays that himself (don’t know if this is fair or not I could never decide)

we fight the odd time when times are tough money wise and I say right let’s sort this out and show me your outgoings and we can see if it’s fair. he thinks he pays out more than me, he is shit with money but I didn’t think to this degree.

i don’t know his taxi earnings, we pay joint bills and the rest is divided up so he pays petrol usually and some groceries and I cover majority of household stuff and anything for the kids as I shop more and enjoy it.

im hurt. Im angry. I feel so deceived. I feel so stupid. I feel sorry for myself that my big pay rise is going to be spent sorting his mess out.

I don’t know if I’m being over dramatic or not - he will tell me I am.

this only came about because he has pissed me off today for other reasons and I know he always avoids showing me his finances. I wanted to sort out money to see what kind of mortgage we could get and after he told me he had debt I wanted to know the full picture. He said he took his credit card off his Apple pay but I saw him use it today. He has at least 3 on there - yes I looked and I’m glad I did as it set the ball rolling for me to find this out today.

im sorry this is long. I’ve left the house to clear my head and I’m literally digesting this as I type.

any advice welcome. Am I the asshole for being dramatic, is this that big a deal? Who clears it?

how do I work out finances now?

he tool charge of the mortgage renewal 2 years ago, the next door neighbour is a mortgage advisor and must know all this yet I’m in the dark. I was getting a hard time for how many times I shop a week I’m in home bargains ffs

there is no gambling issues, I’ve never suspected this and he’s told me there isn’t but it’s something I will be checking to make sure. I just think he lives outside his means and has shit money management.

and tonight before this came out I was accused of being a bully coz I told him to stop acting like a manchild

@Superscientist thanks I’ll look into those charities as he def needs help and retraining his thinking on spending. Amongst many other things too.

some of what you’ve said there does resonate with me. He gets upset with my ‘constant moaning’ about his mess, his lack of effort with xyz, his inability to remember things and need constant reminders but can’t see why I’m moaning. He gets upset when I call him a manchild but can’t see how his behaviour is the reason I say it. I don’t like to name call, I told him he behaves like one so same thing but I honestly find it very hard at times to have constructive communication and the more it goes on the more he reverts to acting like a child. Fk me I haven’t painted a very good picture and I can’t even look at him. I have a lot to think about

You can’t really worry about his debt “up to his eyeballs “ when he leaves you—thatvus his business.

Also I think something you are not getting is that his debt arises from all his spending not just his selfish spending. Its all the same money. He will happily pay for himself when he is a lone actor when he gets kicked out. He will not take on a second job to pay for your mortgage or the children’s needs. He probably sees the money spent on the family as an unfair extraction and distraction.

If you already discussed “what he would take” to leave and he stated the amount was 40,000 I think you can’t pretend that this is a shocking idea or one that will kill him. That is a very calculated statement from him.

Sit down with your finances and figure out the cheapest way to get shot of him and what happens after. But realuze that he will always lie and run up more debt. Eventually you and the children will pay that debt one way or another.

he’s been using cards to pay for petrol, shopping, kids McDonald’s so now that all falls to me as seemingly his wages aren’t enough.

What has he been using his wage for? Presumably he covers half the household costs, does that take up his wage or is he also covering minimum payments on credit cards which means his disposable income is pretty much nil.

The answer of course is if he can’t afford it he doesn’t buy it. If him doing taxis means all that income is going on car costs and fuel, it isn’t bringing in any additional money so he stops doing it, gets rid of the car (for a cheap run around if needed) and gets a second job that pays a wage.

If you decide to stay (and I know it’s a big if), you need a monthly budget that keeps a tight reign on things, no treats, holidays etc until the debt is paid and see where you are when that’s done.

In reality you’ve been taking on his debt unknowingly because you’ve been subsidising the family budget because he’s been pissing his money up the wall. Nothings changed in that you have always been carrying the bulk of costs, and paying his living costs, it’s just that know you know with all that entails.

You realise you're the one worrying about this, don't you, not him? He's crying and letting you take on all the burden. Fuck that, OP. You can't do that.

I'd separate and then help him put it all into one big loan in his name. I couldn't live like that - it would destroy me.

Hate to ask, but what does he do about tax?

me struggling as a single parent with one wage

Sounds like you’ll effectively be struggling on one wage anyway, but by staying together you’ll have to support him as well as your kids.

This.

He covers his share of the bills and pays from
his own account his taxi loan - not a Tesla like someone mentioned but a decent priced nice enough taxi size car. His previous one was recently wrote off.

I often question the income v expenses for the taxi but will be actually laying it all out on a spreadsheet now to see if it’s viable. It’s good flexibility and he thinks it’s good income but things have changed and I dont think I care how much he’s out the house now. I can’t look at him. He can work every hour going.

from what I can see his spending is just on living, nothing excessive that I can make out. Silly subscriptions that do add up but not mega. He’s cancelled about £50 a month worth of Amazon, music, private health care etc this morning.

he wanted to keep private. It’s only for him, personally I don’t see the need for it if he can’t afford it? He said it’s only £15 a month and I erupted and told him it doesn’t matter if it’s 50p a month he cannot afford it. I think this is the big issue with his way of thinking.

he's not eating lunch out every day, it’s groceries he’s paying for so I’m worrying that because he’s paying out about £800 a month on his personal debt that he can’t even afford to meet the basic needs of the family. So everything he paid for, my petrol for example, the weekly McDonald’s, the odd Chinese, £50 or so on groceries when he went - that all falls to me now because he was using more credit to pay for all that. It’s basic living stuff not over and above our needs.

I need to go through it all but I believe this is the case from what I’ve seen so far

If we separated I’ve no idea where he would live never mind get a loan to sort this out - I know not my responsibility but it’s where my head is right now.

as far as I’m aware he is legit, he is paid from the legit taxi company electronically and is on the books so can’t be dodgy. He’s not the type to break the law and does save throughout the year for his tax. We’ve had discussions before about how he needs to pay himself a wage from taxi and put X amount in an account for tax and car maintenance/emergencies but it was all under control I was told when I tried to help.

again something I’ll check tho

A weekly McDonalds and Chinese takeaways are not 'basic living stuff'.

Has he cancelled the £300 trip he's booked yet?

I think you need to get some legal advice and see what the divorce option would really look like. Then you can make an informed decision.

If you choose to stay with him for now you’re going to have to treat him like a child. He would need a prepaid credit card where you put spending money each week. Everything else goes to debt repayments. Run a credit report on him every month so any new debt shows up.

This is really Machiavellian but actually you’ll end up better off in the long run if you take control so he pays off his debts now and you divorce down the line. Depends what age your kids are but you could deal with the finances until they’re a bit older so there is more to split if/when you do choose to divorce.

You need to establish, right now, whether he has been drawing down on the mortgage in the last two years.

he's not eating lunch out every day, it’s groceries he’s paying for so I’m worrying that because he’s paying out about £800 a month on his personal debt that he can’t even afford to meet the basic needs of the family. So everything he paid for, my petrol for example, the weekly McDonald’s, the odd Chinese, £50 or so on groceries when he went - that all falls to me now because he was using more credit to pay for all that. It’s basic living stuff not over and above our needs.

It fell to you anyway, because he wasn’t paying for it. You just didn’t know that. It’s a huge adjustment to realise that your lifestyle will be massively impacted by his behaviour. The reality is you can’t afford McDonalds, a takeaway, extra curricular stuff for the kids, streaming subscriptions etc because you’re broke - because if you decide to stay with him you’ll need to bring the debt down and that will impact everyone in the household.

He’s been behaving like a single man while accessing the security your income and work ethic provide. Who on earth has a single person private health cover when they have a wife and kids? His thought process and the whys almost don’t matter - he’s done what he’s done and either way you’ll be picking up the pieces.

Well it is basic living stuff in this house. We take the kids to McDonald’s on a Saturday and have a Chinese once a month if that

no he hasn’t. He’s taking my son to a football match, the flights are non-refundable and my son knows he’s going. He doesn’t need to pay for his dads mistakes

Thanks this is good advice and more where my head is instead of making a snap decision.

I don’t know what it would be like if I said let’s divorce, he would know the debt could be taken off the equity and we have a decent amount. I don’t want to move the kids out of their home due to divorce and he knows that too so things could change if he knows we’re done.

one of our regular fights is that I have the mental load and he needs to be encouraged, reminded, told to get things done. This adds to that on a massive scale. It’s the beginning of the end.

£21,000 over 10 years is only £2,100 a year and over spending by £40ish a week. In fact probably less because the cost of servicing that debt will be included (unless he’s good at switching to 0% finance deals all the time)

you mention buying a car to taxi - is that part of the debt? Could he sell that asset (and stop taxiing) and get a different second job?

If you want to stay with him he might be the sort of person who can’t have cards and can only have cash. Which you’d have to give him like pocket money. That would give me the ick.

My DH was terrible with money when we first met, but he’s learned quickly. We still have different attitudes to money, I’m a saver, he’s a spender but we talk all the time, balance each other out and take all financial decisions together. We do have debt but haven’t paid interest on any sort of debt in over 10 years.

Um. Well, that makes this sound more of a family problem.

A takeaway once a month and McDonalds every week isn’t far off the £175 a month you’re collectively going over budget. That’s it. Add in his lottery habit maybe.

You both believe that you deserve to be able to consume at a certain level, but you don’t have the money. I know this is a generational thing. I didn’t eat out with my parents, ever, as a child. We went to a pub for my grandmothers 80th birthday (she paid) and we had a pizza out for my A- level results. These things aren’t essential and tbh it isn’t cruel to any of you to stop doing them. If you genuinely care about sorting out your finances, it will be pretty straightforward, just dull. I went to the library a lot.

Does he have ADHD?

I know it’s can be super annoying when people raise neurodiversity on threads so apols if not relevant.

ofc it doesn’t excuse his behaviour but it may explain it and diagnosis/ meds could be a game changer.

Sounds like he needs to do monthly cash envelopes for fuel, takeaways, subscriptions, lottery, etc; so you’re not having to babysit his every purchase. When the monthly amount is gone; it’s gone. Either physical cash envelopes, or digital cash envelopes like the YNAB app.

@CaptainSevenofNine I think it is definitely just an accrual, probably more of an overspend years ago and it’s been maintained for years. He does move the debt so little to no interest charges but the balance trf fees add up and I wonder what cards he’s taken out, ones he can have access to money from as he’s done a few transfers of cash to his bank so I’m guessing poor rates on those.

the car loan is separate to the 21k - that’s all credit cards. How sad. That loan is about £400 a month, I believed that’s all he had along with a tiny credit card amount so he’s paying about £800 a month out to it all combined. It’s woeful. That’s his taxi earnings. Almost the same as our childcare. We don’t even have full time child care as we can’t afford it so my working day is often under pressure and I catch up at night time when they’re all in bed.

so selling the car I don’t think would matter as he’s got the loan to pay for anyway and there’s no doubt that loan was consolidated - again something to add to my list of things to check.

ick is right. I can’t deal with pathetic and needy.

@BountifulPantry I often think it and have mentioned it but he’s appalled. He does half a job in everything, can’t finish a task, forgetful, can’t follow instructions, loses everything, can’t put things away and forgets where he left them, he’s definitely impulsive, he can’t concentrate and if the subject doesn’t fully interest him he isn’t interested

oh and a major one is his emotions, can’t deal with them, can’t handle them, moody for no reason. I say he has a man cycle of about 6 weeks where he goes really off with me and then seems to snap out of it and I get totally opposite reactions to the same things depending what mood he’s in. He cannot communicate and thats been the big issue here, said he couldn’t tell me. Even when he tried to tell me he kept wanting to chat when the kids were sleeping (they were in bed almost over) I found it so strange as he does not instigate any conversations like that. He said he wanted to talk about the debt, we’d already been fighting and I’d been led to believe it was 7k. I knew by his face, I just said spit it out I can’t wait on this I need to know, he was grey, said he felt he was having a panic attack, I just told him to tell me
how much and he said 21k

I was married to someone like that, When we met I was mortgage and debt free - started living together and found he owed thousands in unpaid tax and credit cards - I took out a mortgage to clear it. After 8 years I married him - a big mistake, huge. Another 20000 plus debt racked up - paid again. 3rd debt came and I refused to pay - he filed for divorce and got half the house - a hefty 6 figure sum. With the help of from family managed to buy a house with a smallish mortgage - for years I kept getting debt collectors contacting me, looking for him. I’m now retired, mortgage free and no debt. I have a comfortable life - it wouldn’t be if we stayed together. This leopard doesn’t change his spots - get rid. Like your husband, he just loved to spend money he didn’t have.

so selling the car I don’t think would matter as he’s got the loan to pay for anyway and there’s no doubt that loan was consolidated - again something to add to my list of things to check.

Can he sell the car and pay off the loan as far as possible - how much of a gap between the value of the car and the outstanding finance. I think you need to look at the debt as a whole - credit cards, any car finance, personal loans rather than keeping them in separate boxes, because it all needs to be paid from a finite income.

So, all of the income, all of the debt, anything you can sell, any costs you can cut and then see where you stand in terms of monthly income and outgoings.

My situation with my ex was a bit different because we had joint accounts and didn't actually go into debt much. But that was only because the more my oh spent the less I spent. Similarly it was nothing more than everyday spending and random 'hobbies'. He'd go to the shops and buy several DVDs or a bunch of expensive books. Or he'd decide to cook and buy steak, expensive wine or craft beer or fancy whisky etc to go with it. He'd randomly decide he wanted to do drawing and buy a bunch of expensive stuff that he'd use once.

We had a huge argument about it before having kids. Budgets were made, spending all agreed, we both had a 'fun fund' amount to spend monthly on whatever we wanted. It only lasted a few months.

By the end me and the kids were both on secondhand everything while he spend impulsively. There were other emotional abuse type issues too. But when I brought it up he started accusing me of being financially controlling by having a budget (not that he stuck to it).

Our kids are now diagnosed autistic with ADHD and I suspect my ex is the same. Hes not changed and I don't think he ever will. The relief of being in control of my finances has been wonderful.

@whyisnothingsimple my goodness that’s awful and it rings so many bells with me. He just loved to spend money he didn’t have. I don’t want to live this life, I thought I was changing my life for the better here. This is the opposite. I’m scared to admit that you’re right and he won’t change. It feels like there’s no ‘issue’ as such as there’s not an addition to gambling, alcohol etc but that is maybe worse. How does this change, how can he change.

Seeing your update about emotional issues I'd suggest looking at womens aid: https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/recognising-domestic-abuse/

I hadn't realised quite how much emptionally abusive behaviour I was putting up with until I spoke to Women's Aid.

If he does have something like ADHD that doesn't excuse his behaviour. He is an adult and needs to get support.

@sunshine244 that’s so sad, you gave up so much and he couldn’t see it. I’m glad you’re in a much better place now.

@Jellycatspyjamas I’m sure the loan is about 1.5 years in but don’t know how much it was even for as £400 seems excessive and it will be over a long term, he takes nothing over short term so by my reckoning this loan was for about £20k nothing was discussed on this last night but yes I plan to look at it all as you say but if he’s sitting there withholding information. ….

i told him last night that everything needed to be on the table. The lies, money, can’t trust him said you lie about everything so if you’ve anything else to confess, relationships wise, money, anything whatsoever then you say now. He said there was nothing

he can make a good £300 a night in the taxi - hence why I didn’t understand why we weren’t doing better. I never questioned his income tho, felt it was intrusive and he gave off the feeling that I was questioning him. Oh the irony. So I feel like the taxi is probably the best bet we have for a 2nd job but I know what you’re saying and will need to weigh it all up