Husband ran up debt

[deirdrechilly]

He’s just told me he has 21k of debt. He told me last week it was 7k which came as a shock as I thought it was 5k a few years back and he was working to clear it (like myself who also had 5k and has been working to clear it)

When we met 20 years ago he had 30-40k of debt, lived with his parents and drove a bucket of shit car. No designer clothes or expensive habits, nothing to show for it other than nights out and poor money management.

He took out an IVA to clear it and also a second job. It was cleared he quit the second job and we were finally debt free, built up credit and finally able to buy a house.

then tonight he tells me this. It’s built up over 10 years he says. Nothing to show for it.

i also had debt when we met, had a DMP, and learned from it. Have achieved several promotions in my career and found out last week I’m soon to be getting a promotion that comes with a 17k pay rise bringing me on to 61k per year. This is still sinking in for me, I left school at 15 with no aspirations, got saddled with debt from my first relationship, spent years working two jobs myself and finally felt as though I was winning at life last week. I was excited to look at new houses as have been wanting to move, he mentioned consolidating credit card/loans. I said oh what do you have left I only have 2.5k on mine. He said 7k I was a bit shocked and it’s been on my mind. On one card he said, just not managing to survive despite working 2 jobs (he was adamant he wanted to work a second job again about 5 years ago for extra income)

clearly our finances are separate, with his 2nd job we were earning roughly the same until 6 months ago when I got a pay rise.

we have our own accounts and send money to a joint account for bills. His 2nd job is taxiing so he needed to take out a loan for his car, he pays that himself (don’t know if this is fair or not I could never decide)

we fight the odd time when times are tough money wise and I say right let’s sort this out and show me your outgoings and we can see if it’s fair. he thinks he pays out more than me, he is shit with money but I didn’t think to this degree.

i don’t know his taxi earnings, we pay joint bills and the rest is divided up so he pays petrol usually and some groceries and I cover majority of household stuff and anything for the kids as I shop more and enjoy it.

im hurt. Im angry. I feel so deceived. I feel so stupid. I feel sorry for myself that my big pay rise is going to be spent sorting his mess out.

I don’t know if I’m being over dramatic or not - he will tell me I am.

this only came about because he has pissed me off today for other reasons and I know he always avoids showing me his finances. I wanted to sort out money to see what kind of mortgage we could get and after he told me he had debt I wanted to know the full picture. He said he took his credit card off his Apple pay but I saw him use it today. He has at least 3 on there - yes I looked and I’m glad I did as it set the ball rolling for me to find this out today.

im sorry this is long. I’ve left the house to clear my head and I’m literally digesting this as I type.

any advice welcome. Am I the asshole for being dramatic, is this that big a deal? Who clears it?

how do I work out finances now?

he tool charge of the mortgage renewal 2 years ago, the next door neighbour is a mortgage advisor and must know all this yet I’m in the dark. I was getting a hard time for how many times I shop a week I’m in home bargains ffs

there is no gambling issues, I’ve never suspected this and he’s told me there isn’t but it’s something I will be checking to make sure. I just think he lives outside his means and has shit money management.

and tonight before this came out I was accused of being a bully coz I told him to stop acting like a manchild

You will need to sit down and work out all of your outgoings, both yours and his. See where the money is actually going.

Whilst I don't think you should be paying his debt, you will both need to work this out together. You've said you don't know how you'll be able to afford things, but you're moving to a job with an income some people can only dream of having as a joint income (ps well done for your achievement!). If you're both working, he has two jobs you must be close if not over a £100k income household?

Unfortunately I do think you'll have to take on some of the load, but he absolutely should not have any access bar a bit of spending money to pay it all off. Cruel to be kind unfortunately

As another poster has worked out, his current debt only amounts to an overspend of roughly £40 per week.
Forgivee if I'm wrong, but I thought taxi drivers are paid extremely good money?
You mentioned in one of your recent comments that while you were both receiving regular pay rises in the past, he was seemingly struggling more and more each time. Are his earnings not as good as they once were? Perhaps he's not working as many hours as he used to?
Without knowing how many hours he works each day, I would say he needs to increase this.
I still can't get past the silly lies you say he does. That would really grate on me. It would be very difficult to trust him with minor things that should help the smooth running of life, let alone a relationship or even a household. I think he definitely needs some form of psychological help if he is to understand why he is like this and to learn how to stop it all.
Relationships are based on honesty, as are friendships. Without this, as you have said - it's a shit show.
I understand you love him, and in the grand scheme of things, it's not like he cheated or anything like that. But that said, this is still a huge betrayal coupled with a lack of trust, albeit a different kind.
He needs to do better if he is to save your marriage. It's for him to make better, not you. You already do enough by the sounds of it.

OP I've been in the same boat over the years, hidden debts, addictions etc.
I'm not saying this to excuse anything but my husband has been recently diagnosed with ADHD after a lifetime of these kind of behaviours.
It's like he didn't know how to 'adult' but also had a genuine desire to not act like that and couldn't explain why he did the things he did.
We never would of dreamed of ADHD but when you look up undiagnosed ADHD in men there were so many light bulb moments.
Unlike with children it's not the hyperactivity, when it's diagnosed for so long the traits are things like addictions, compulsive behaviour, lack of awareness of consequences, bad with money, agitation, easily frustrated and angry, never content, not taking mental note of things like upcoming events, sports days etc.
If you do want to stay in your marriage then consider looking up undiagnosed ADHD in men and there is quizes he can take to check it.
It might not be that at all but there's a possibility it could x

Thank you. Yes I hope to be placed by the end of the year and the income would be on 100k which is totally life changing but so is this bombshell. I think I’m catastrophising until I see it all and enquire further. The kids are off school so nothing can be done until bed time.

I agree I’ll end up taking on the load, mentally and having less spare cash than anticipated. I wanted to save all my increase for a new house, treats, a family holiday, being able to pay for dinner for everyone when we visit family. I’m feeling sorry for myself as I’ve spent a week thinking I had a different way of life ahead of us. Cruel to be kind is right.

Sounds like he has undiagnosed ADHD and is struggling and as a result you and the family are suffering.

The issues you have described are typical adhd behaviours. Overspending and financial chaos are typical. It’s really immature of him to be appalled at your suggestion of ADHD- the kids have got it from somewhere haven’t they?

Recommend you look at R/ADHD_partners and see if any of the posts resonate with you.

Unless he accepts his issues, gets diagnosis, medication and therapy he will not change because he literally cannot.

Again, it would be more beneficial for you to take control of the family and make him pay back his debt before you split.

@Rainbows41 thanks this is helpful. His second job is taxi so he’s not out all the time and I have been complaining about the hours he works as I want to spend more quality time together. The marriage has been shit lately.

his earnings have only got better, small gradual pay rises in main job that add up.

I plan to work out the taxi income and restructure his working hours.

another poster mentioned adhd and I have suspected it before now but read more today and it def sums him up. I think I want to see about counselling as we need help but it’s expensive. Catch 22 as now I feel like I can’t spend any money

@CoralOP this could have been me writing this, I think this is a very good possibility and have done reading today, how did he get diagnosed?

I am not making any excuses for him but your description screams ADHD, especially the emotional disregulation and inability to properly talk about issues.

My partner of almost 20 years has adhd and he could have easily ended up like your husband, except for two things - one, he earns very well, two, I keep an eye on things.

This is why we are not married, too much fucking about and I walk away. He knows that.

It works if you are a good earner yourself, which you are.

Fundamentally though your H has to actually get some help. He won't be able to overcome the compulsive behaviour otherwise.

Only you can decide if you want to treat him like a child forever, because with the fact that you're legally married it unfortunately is your problem.

Get legal advice so you understand your options.

He started by doing a couple of the Online tests then went to the GP, he's in the process of them assessing if medication will be best so we will see.

He has a very addictive personatliy and spends a lot of time and heartache getting control of an addiction then it's just moves to something else.

It's important to look at the more undetected, less known traits of ADHD when it's gone on for so long. My husband also didn't think it was him at all because he was imagining the typical hyper teenager type that you associate with it. There's a huge connection with undiagnosed ADHD and addiction in particular, that's what got me first looking into it.
But obviously this isn't an excuse for any of the behaviour, just a possibility of where it might stem from x

I told him last night that everything needed to be on the table. The lies, money, can’t trust him said you lie about everything so if you’ve anything else to confess, relationships wise, money, anything whatsoever then you say now. He said there was nothing

Of course he said there was nothing; as you've mentioned he's lied and lied and lied again so why would that change now?

I can see - and clearly understand because I tried it myself - that you're attempting to make sense of something which makes no sense at all, and it's not going to work because you're getting a fraction of the story at best

As PPs have said your very best option would be to get legal advice around what the divorce situation would look like. Sad though this outcome may be in some ways it seems just about the only one which will avoid you being destroyed

@FeedingPidgeons thank you for this. I feel like we now have another issue in trying to broach the adhd as I think so too. I did say last night that he needs to get help, financial education as well as some sort of marriage counselling as this has broken every bit of trust, we were hanging by a thread anyway and I told him this well and truly felt like the end. I’m hoping it can come about there so as not from me but I don’t know why I’m even saying this as I feel like I say something and he automatically can’t handle it, it’s like that pathological demand avoidance - if he’s in a mood which I never know about, he will always attack and accuse me of lying. Fk me it’s a mess

@CoralOP yeah he wouldn’t be hyperactive at all but does display a lot of behaviours that can’t really be brushed off when you look at it altogether

@Puzzledandpissedoff you’re right and I have no reason to believe he would tell me the truth.

I have a lot to do, it’s in motion and will get sorted. There’s so many branches to this and it’s not straight forward. I think he thinks it is tho and I don’t think he will expect me not to be there to just fix
it or leave him on his own.

im waiting on the blame coming coz it was me who sent him for the shopping, me who earned more and expected him to pay xyz, me who wouldn’t have joint earnings so didn’t keep an eye on his spending

I should add, if he does have ADHD it is in no way an excuse for lying, blame shifting and avoiding conversation.

Some things are harder if you have that condition but it doesn't excuse any of the shitty things he has done. You are not responsible for his crap decisions or financial incontinence.

Good luck OP, this is a really tough situation.

At this point he can't be saying no to anything you ask. If you want him to be checked for ADHD/go to counseling etc then he needs to do it otherwise he can live with his problems and you can move on, they are his issues at the end of the day.
There should be no getting annoyed at you, moods, blame, he's in last chance saloon (if you want to work in it still).

Thank you. I think I def need to organise things and arrange counselling and time can help me decide. At least I can say I’ve explored all options and can leave guilt free if that’s what I decide.

I do think adhd is on the cards and agree it’s not an excuse but it might help him be organised and less impulsive if he’s diagnosed, can’t be a bad thing to find out and get help

I do think adhd is on the cards and agree it’s not an excuse but it might help him be organised and less impulsive if he’s diagnosed, can’t be a bad thing to find out and get help

The thing with diagnosis though is that it doesn’t change anything, it just gives a framing for it and may give him a way to say “see, it’s not my fault, I couldn’t help it”.

I’m a fan of seeking diagnosis to get a sense of how the land lies, but ultimately he is an adult and needs to function in a world that will only accommodate him so far. He needs to find ways to function as an autonomous adult and he doesn’t seem willing to meet you half way.

Wise words, Jellycatspyjamas

Being no expert I don't do armchair diagnosis of ADHD or anything else, but it can't be denied that it's often the go-to on here and tends to get thrown at absolutely everything

As you rightly suggest though it changes nothing beyond perhaps giving him something else to hide behind, and certainly doesn't alter OP's need to look after her own interests now

And frankly it sounds about time when she's been through enough already

Absolutely agree.
It may make him angry but he needs to know how to deal with that anger.
If it makes him scatty he needs to make lists etc
If it makes him impulsive he needs put all kinds of measures in place to kerb that, keep money in hard to get accounts, use pocket money, Absolutely no credit cards.

With my husband he now understands that he thinks different to others. Before he would get so agitated waiting in a queue but now he thinks this must be my adhd and I need to do something to take my mind off it, its gave him the knowledge of where its come from but he needs to work out his own ways to manage it.

When you say he has 6 weekly cycles OP, what do you mean? Does he gets in a mood and then gives you the silent treatment? Withholds affection?

@Youllnevergetabetterbitofbutteronyourknife just that he loses patience for me, he goes through his own cycle like I do I always say. He’s touchy, moody, anything I say is wrong and he has no patience but i could ask the same question the next week in the same tone and get a totally different response - kind, caring.

There’s something to be said for knowing about each others finances! We both know how much the other had in pensions, savings etc. We both pay proportionate amounts into a joint bank account and what’s left is in our own current and savings accounts. We see each other’s bank statements, don’t make a point of it it’s just that they’re not hidden. No need for finances to be secret. The thought of secret debts is horrifying, having had a family member in that situation.

Same thing happened to me with my exh (over £50k with nothing to show), all the same excuses and lies. I tried, but once the trust is broken it's hard to get back. I'm so sorry you're going through this, it's horrible, but you sound like you've got the mindset to get through whatever decision you make 💪

This thread is making me feel better hearing how many people have dealt with the same thing, it's not just stupid me! I hope it's helping you too xx

We have a spreadsheet with our joint finances on, lists on savings accounts how much is in them the rates etc. when we are making financial decisions we ensure it's affordable for both. We review the spreadsheet every few months.
We have another tab with our household expenditure on so we know how much we need in the joint account in a typical month. What company we are with for each utility etc
It's a bit glum but it does mean that should something happened to one of other the other will know what companies to approach about bills and accounts.

@Milkybarmummy yes it really is helping and reassuring me that I’m right to be angry and not be expected to take this on too. I do feel so stupid about it. You’re right @Allseeingallknowing there is something to be said and ours weren’t hidden as such but just never on display either? I did purposely conceal how much I had in savings as I felt he was too interested and I clearly didn’t even trust him before I knew the whole story but I couldn’t have done that with debt. I spend my wee savings on things for the house, him and the kids

@Superscientist we used to do exactly that years ago when he had the Iva and I had a dmp. Everything was shared then we cleared the debt and somewhere along the line we stopped sharing financial info as we didn’t have to be so rigid with spending. Clearly he didn’t get the memo about living within our means.

yes good idea about knowing where to go, I have access to the joint account so would have it all there but it’s got me thinking about putting things in trust for the kids now to make sure he doesn’t blow anything he would be entitled to if something happened to me. This is what I’ve thought about all night, he is clueless of the impact. It’s unreal. I still can’t get my head round it

Hi OP,
I have read all your posts.
While I think your husband is guilty of being a bit slap dash - going to the corner shop rather than the supermarket, running too many subscriptions and being a bit impulsive re experiences for himself and the kids- football/holidays etc, I also think that this is easily done.

You have said your husband buys shopping, petrol and takeaways for the family. I would expect this to be well over 1k each month. You said that you buy stuff for the house and kids - which I would not expect to be 1k + every month and is much easier to delay if the money is running low than food shopping and petrol.

The cost of everything has rocketed and many people find they are working and earning more but have less money to spend so I think you are being unfair solely blaming your husband for this feeling in your house. He has probably been trying to keep up a lifestyle that is no longer affordable.

I suspect your husband only ever wanted to be a good provider for you and the kids as well as being a little impulsive

It doesn't sound like you both have worked as much of a team. I don't think you should take over all the finances or cut up your partners card but you do need to take a joint/team approach.

I use YNAB to organise my own and my husbands finances. I can keep track of the bills this way including annual bills and subscriptions . I can also plan for holidays/car repairs etc so I'm aware of what each of us have and know if I need to transfer my husband some money because he has a car insurance and MOT going out and will run short or he needs to send me some because I have a big bill. I can also see if I need to say "It's tight this month please don't splash the cash" or "I can see you've been to the shops 10 times over a few days here - can you try to calm it down" - when he will no doubt recount what that was for and how many times it was me that sent him!

Your husband is very busy working 2 jobs so perhaps he or you could do a big shop online every week or two to reduce the need for convenience shopping.

Your pay rise sounds amazing but you do sound unrealistic when you talk about reducing your hours, having a nest egg for the kids and getting windows done. Won't it only be about 10k each year after deductions and obviously reducing your hours will reduce any extra amount. If windows cost 20k that is 2 years of your rise if you maintain the same hours.