Husband ran up debt

[deirdrechilly]

He’s just told me he has 21k of debt. He told me last week it was 7k which came as a shock as I thought it was 5k a few years back and he was working to clear it (like myself who also had 5k and has been working to clear it)

When we met 20 years ago he had 30-40k of debt, lived with his parents and drove a bucket of shit car. No designer clothes or expensive habits, nothing to show for it other than nights out and poor money management.

He took out an IVA to clear it and also a second job. It was cleared he quit the second job and we were finally debt free, built up credit and finally able to buy a house.

then tonight he tells me this. It’s built up over 10 years he says. Nothing to show for it.

i also had debt when we met, had a DMP, and learned from it. Have achieved several promotions in my career and found out last week I’m soon to be getting a promotion that comes with a 17k pay rise bringing me on to 61k per year. This is still sinking in for me, I left school at 15 with no aspirations, got saddled with debt from my first relationship, spent years working two jobs myself and finally felt as though I was winning at life last week. I was excited to look at new houses as have been wanting to move, he mentioned consolidating credit card/loans. I said oh what do you have left I only have 2.5k on mine. He said 7k I was a bit shocked and it’s been on my mind. On one card he said, just not managing to survive despite working 2 jobs (he was adamant he wanted to work a second job again about 5 years ago for extra income)

clearly our finances are separate, with his 2nd job we were earning roughly the same until 6 months ago when I got a pay rise.

we have our own accounts and send money to a joint account for bills. His 2nd job is taxiing so he needed to take out a loan for his car, he pays that himself (don’t know if this is fair or not I could never decide)

we fight the odd time when times are tough money wise and I say right let’s sort this out and show me your outgoings and we can see if it’s fair. he thinks he pays out more than me, he is shit with money but I didn’t think to this degree.

i don’t know his taxi earnings, we pay joint bills and the rest is divided up so he pays petrol usually and some groceries and I cover majority of household stuff and anything for the kids as I shop more and enjoy it.

im hurt. Im angry. I feel so deceived. I feel so stupid. I feel sorry for myself that my big pay rise is going to be spent sorting his mess out.

I don’t know if I’m being over dramatic or not - he will tell me I am.

this only came about because he has pissed me off today for other reasons and I know he always avoids showing me his finances. I wanted to sort out money to see what kind of mortgage we could get and after he told me he had debt I wanted to know the full picture. He said he took his credit card off his Apple pay but I saw him use it today. He has at least 3 on there - yes I looked and I’m glad I did as it set the ball rolling for me to find this out today.

im sorry this is long. I’ve left the house to clear my head and I’m literally digesting this as I type.

any advice welcome. Am I the asshole for being dramatic, is this that big a deal? Who clears it?

how do I work out finances now?

he tool charge of the mortgage renewal 2 years ago, the next door neighbour is a mortgage advisor and must know all this yet I’m in the dark. I was getting a hard time for how many times I shop a week I’m in home bargains ffs

there is no gambling issues, I’ve never suspected this and he’s told me there isn’t but it’s something I will be checking to make sure. I just think he lives outside his means and has shit money management.

and tonight before this came out I was accused of being a bully coz I told him to stop acting like a manchild

@Winter2020 thank you for the reply. He covers all petrol, we travel 2 miles each weekday outside of his taxi mileage. I cover the shopping, he gets essentials as and when needed and has only done this for the last 6 months. He doesn’t cover it all, just what’s needed or most often if he fancies something nice. He usually pays the weekly McDonald’s. I cover all other treats, school fees, football kit, footballs boots, kids extra curricular, clothes, shoes, uniform, dance costumes. I also buy all his clothes, toiletries, trainers, protein powder, I cover all the gifts for family/friends.

I never wanted my windows done, someone mentioned that as an example of a maintenance cost down the line and I may have referenced it in my reply as an example but it’s not something I’ll be doing as my intention was to move house.

I don’t convenience shop, I can always find a lunch or dinner for everyone from what I buy weekly. I go to home bargains, Lidl and Iceland one day and Tesco another so there is always a good variety of bargains on the cupboards at all times. My husband likes to have a fridge stocked full of Coke and sprite of which he will drink at least 2 a day, often more, if it is there he can’t help himself. Same with crisps, sweets and chocolate so I don’t buy those often and have taken to hiding what I do buy for the kids so he doesn’t eat it all and also so the kids can’t help themselves. Ive meal planned, written it out, bought the food, filled the freezer with ‘healthy’ convenience meals but often he will take himself to the shop and see what he fancies for dinner. Each week there’s food thrown out that’s not been eaten and is out of date, he doesn’t like to freeze things. He refuses to eat a meal I’ve cooked from scratch and then frozen - despite enjoying my cooking he hates reheats of any kind. I try to use up food but if he buys something with a poor date on it I’m not always aware before it’s too late.

He used to spend easily £15 a day when in the office and then lockdown came and he worked from home. He still racked up debt when nothing was open and I was the one going to the shops.

I do very much see your point but you’ve not picked up on all my points correctly and I have very much tried to make sure his outgoings are relevant to his income but I was unaware of his massive outgoings and without him telling me he is struggling there is no way for me to be aware.

For what I can see is that your DH hasn’t received any debt counselling. I worked for an Insolvency practitioner for over 25 years and we had several clients who you knew that after the end of their IVA, they would be back a couple of years later with more debt and another IVA arranged. I would say at the time, to my boss why don’t they want to get help with their spending and he would say mostly they don’t think it’s a big enough problem to have to get help. OP whilst it’s great that you are helping him sort his debt out, he has to get some debt counselling himself to understand and take responsibility and to realise that these debts really shouldn’t have happened.

Something is not adding up with the taxi driving - ask to see his self assessment tax returns.

He can “be through the books” of a firm but if he’s providing his own car I’d expect him to be self employed and contracting business from the firm. If he’s self employment and not been declaring the income and tax then you have bigger things to worry about than credit card debt.

I hate to add to your problems but if you think he's saved his tax and extra NI money, you must be insane. He spends everything he has and more. I'm sure he has good intentions of saving for tax, but the reality will be that he spends it all and thinks "I'll save for that nearer the time." The taxi firm won't be paying his tax for him.

Did you manage to talk any more about this with him last night?

Wow this is so scary. I'm so sorry OP. Hiding that level of debt is akin to infidelity to me. He has chosen to hide crucial information about the marriage that impacts you for a long time.

I'm not judgmental about debt, I actually went bankrupt myself at 24, due to a series of circumstances that left me having to put living costs on credit to avoid homelessness. I worked my tail off to improve my circumstances and complete training and get better jobs and become more on top of it with money. It just took too long to avoid the bankruptcy.

Never been in debt since. Your husband seems like someone that just hasn't learned the lesson and will choose to be forever awful with money. Is that someone you want to share a life with? I'd be fuming and scared being in a marriage with that much debt that isn't a mortgage. And the lying. Can you get past it? How can you trust him again?

And he needs to explain what he spent it all on. Statements will help him if he can't remember. You need to know. I'd be worried he is covering up something else sinister like gambling addiction or seeing sex workers or a drug addiction. That's such a massive amount of money.

He’s a liar and he will be your downfall.

I’m sorry, OP.

@Mindymomo thank you, I’ve told him he needs to educate himself and start to think differently. I had a rant last night and told him I’d finally bought a new £20 unit for the bathroom that I’d been deliberating over for 4 months as I wasn’t sure if it was a needed item or not - the complete opposite to his thinking. He knows he needs help and said when he got one of his earlier cards he said right this is the last, but it wasn’t. He said he can’t help himself.

@Pepperpie14 he’s self employed but it’s cashless. The customers pay on the app and the company pay him. He pays his tax and NI and I fully believe he has done this and will be checking. He makes a fair bit from the taxi and uses this to cover holidays and ‘luxuries/extras’ or so I thought. This entire wage covers the debt and it is a second job too not his main income

@Superscientist yes I did, he’s relieved I know and it’s clearly a weight off his shoulders, I’ve told him I don’t even know what I want to do about it all and what he would do if I said it was over and I wasn’t helping. He didn’t have an answer. We discussed his serious lack of communication and how this is a major issue throughout our relationship and also with his family who he doesn’t have a relationship with due to avoiding any hard conversations. He may be relieved but I’ve told him the problems are only just starting. My life is upside down because of this. He loves to brush things under the rug and I’ve told him this is not happening and I will continue to make sure he knows just what a mess he has made and how it’s affecting our kids future

@YellowCamperVan I agree and I told him last night while the amount is making me feel sick it’s the fact he lied and has deceived me. He def hasn’t learned the lesson and doesn’t think like me in regards to money amongst other things. He is very much the type of person who gives up if things get hard and finds the easy way out always regardless of how this affects people. He will do things with the kids that give him an easy life today but gives the kids poor behaviours and expectations of him. I find it hard to deal with.

I told him I can’t trust him, he was getting fed up with me asking the same questions over and over as I can’t get my head round it all and I told him I will be asking him the same thing over and over and if he doesn’t like it he can go and sort it out on his own. He does have a poor attitude at times and now this and I just think can I be bothered but at the minute I’m processing this deceit and can think clearer about it soon.

im pretty sure it’s not sinister, he’s in the house with us working and out in the taxi if he’s not. The kids track him and we see he’s working. I track him when the weathers bad, I’ve heard about an accident etc. I don’t doubt his commitment to me that way. I do think it’s all on the table now and he knows no point in lying. He said he’s not worked as much as he usually does this year and that’s true as I’ve been wanting him to cut down as I thought we should be able to afford it

So he’s told me just now that he’s no happy with how I’m speaking to him and how I’m giving him a hard time and he can’t take this every day. I found out about this at 9pm on Sunday night and it’s Tuesday morning. He’s spent 10 years lying to me and deceiving me but he’s not happy with how I’m speaking to him. Wtf. I’ve told him I’m done, he’s on his own and can expect no help from me if he can’t even accept that I’m angry.

i got him to fill in a budget spreadsheet and he’s filled it in with how things will look going forward. I wanted to see where he had been spending his money and was angry at the fact he couldn’t understand that.

keeps telling me he doesn’t use the credit every month yet the statements I see he has used them plenty the last few months. Also said it’s coz he can’t get out to taxi - which he blames me for coz I encourage him to spend more time with the kids, me and genuinely thought he was working extra to pay for my big birthday and I told him I’d rather have the time spent with him than have a fancy trip or gift.

i just can’t understand how he can sit there and expect me to not have a go

Unfortunately OP, it doesn't sound like he's willing to take accountability and is turning it around on you. The 6 weekly cycles may become more often. Can you honestly live like this? I know I couldn't. You and your children deserve so much more than this!

I'm sorry you've put the (very painful) effort in to try and he's clearly not.
He obviously doesn't understand the huge changes he needs to take to fix his marriage.
Sounds like he just want you to stop going on about it so he can go back to normal life asap and it just doesn't work like that.
Maybe you do need to leave or at least take some time out to see what your future looks like.
He needs to understand this isn't just an argument, he's altered how you deeply feel about him and he needs to do a lot of hard work to change that but if he doesn't get that you need to draw a line under it. Good luck, thinking of you xx

It sounds like he wants you to go there there, not your fault. I'll fix it for you, you don't have to change.

He can't take this every day??
And there's you waking up each morning with 0.5 of a second where you're feeling normal and then BANG it hits you - suddenly remembering how financially fucked he is. The man you trusted with your life so married him for better or worse. Did he respect you? No.
He has lied and decieved you for over ten years! Did he think "oh it's alright, I'll just go bankrupt again" ? or, " it's ok my wife earns a lot, I'll just lean on her"? Because actually no one knows wtf he was thinking when he was ruining his family's future.
Him telling you he doesn't like you having a go at him every day, literally screams that he wants to brush it under the carpet and quickly get over it like It's yesterday's news.
Unless he can magic £10k out of his arse, then no, this isn't going anywhere, and he will continue to be reminded of this huge mess that he has created - just like you are - each and every day.
The man has two jobs, both paying very well. There is literally no reason for him to be so greedy and spend beyond his means. It just looks like whatever he wants, he goes and gets and sod the consequences.
Don't even get me started on him trying to turn this around on you by saying how it was you who wanted him to reduce his hours, so he did regardless of the secret web of lies he was keeping.
Has he done anything since Sunday to even try and rectify this situation?
Because from where you're standing, you earn a great wage and run your life like a tight ship. He is doing nothing but taking advantage of this.
He is supposed to be your partner - someone who enhances you, whilst you enhance him.
He is acting like an anchor in the ocean. I'd be tempted to cut him loose.

Thanks everyone I really appreciate the support.

yes @Superscientist I said that to him and he says he just can’t take me talking to him like that as he’s said sorry. I’ve went through him again, explaining his whole attitude and behaviour is the reason for this situation and the money is secondary to the issue. He doesn’t think he has an issue with gambling, he said he only pays a direct debit to the lotto a month but in actual fact he pays that and spends too, gambles on sports sometimes and plays other prize competitions. I made him sit while I went through his statements and calculated it. £350 this year alone on lotto, prize competitions and betting. It’s sickening. I think he’s starting to see that he really is in denial about what has actually been spent.

I think at this stage you have enough. The problem he has champagne tastes and lemonade money. He has been over spending for years. He was in debt in the past and you helped him out then.

His 2nd job means that your on your own with the kids several nights a week. You have seen no change in your circumstances despite him working 2 job's. Meanwhile you worked hard and have gotten promotions in work.
Your shopping around to get good value on items and trying to put money aside.
With your pay increase you were planning to look at a new home and then found out about all his debit.

At this stage I would be speaking to a solicitor about a divorce and bring all the financial details together for you both. You need to get advice on how to protect what you have now and see how debit in his name will be treated.
He can't keep spending like this. Nor can he expect you to take on this debt and let him continue to spend what he wants. Rather than taking some responsibility he is ungrateful for what your trying to do for him and does not like the way you're speaking to him now about this.

At this stage you have to consider what best for you and your children long term. If he gets this debit paid off he will go into debit again. He will expect you to pay it off for him again. The reality is that his spending is not just effecting him but you and the kid's.

You need to have money to keep the bills and mortgage paid. You need to have cash in the case of emergencies. Then you need to save for your kids to help with university or help them get a home later on if possible.
I would not let a man like him ruin your finances or ruin your kids futures because there college funds is needed to pay off his debits.

he’s told me just now that he’s no happy with how I’m speaking to him and how I’m giving him a hard time and he can’t take this every day

Yes I'm afraid I expected this, and also the continued lies about credit card use

There's no point in revisiting how unreasonable he's being because you already know that, but clearly he has no intention of changing or even accepting any responsibility for what he's doing, so it becomes ever clearer that you have a decision to make

@Rainbows41 this is 100% what is happening and I said those exact words to him about pulling money out his arse.

I have been jumping awake and then the horrible feeling hits me and I just lie there going 20k over and over.

I think he expects that it will all get fixed and he doesn’t want his feelings hurt anymore but I’ve tore him apart and told him home truths about his impulsive nature and feeling entitled to have what he wants when he wants. He thinks he should stop for a cold can of coke every time he leaves the house. He was off red bull for ages apparently as he was literally addicted to it, he turned off the ring doorbell last week to go out and buy some but I was in looking at the live and seen him walk back in with 2 which he had one after the other. 2 sneaky red bulls isn’t a big deal but that’s him all over, wants something nice, has to have it there and then and is greedy.

He’s starting to understand this isn’t blowing over. I’ve told him he takes what he gets from me if he wants help but it’s not a punishment and I’m not here to berate him for the sake of it.

I’ve said for years he’s selfish and lives like a single man without care for me and now the kids and that is very apparent now

I know finances are tight but would an adhd informed couples therapist help?

I don’t know why he’s giving you such a hard time when he has fucked up so badly.

We have a joint account and online banking messages us everything that’s spent. We’ve always discussed bigger purchases. I really don’t understand why separate accounts are needed in an honest marriage. And I’m the person that consistently earnt the most.

Your marriage is over OP, bar the shouting. I think you know that deep down. You deserve a happy, peaceful life. This too will pass.

Because this is the kind of shitty, immature, person he is. That will never change.

As long as you let him think you will solve the problem for you he will never solve it for himself.

Look at his income. Look at his debt. Divide the debt into monthly payments and tell him he needs to come up with that from his second job while paying into the family kitty with his first. If he can’t prove to you that he is out of debt in a year, while also fulfilling his family financial duties, then pull the plug. He absolutely won’t take you seriously until you threaten to walk snd even then he will prefer to avoid than to solve the problem.

@Loopylalalou I like having my own money, it helps me spend less as I can save it and take more responsibility for it. We had a joint account before and I felt like every transaction was scrutinised on both sides and I didn’t like it. It wouldn’t have mattered anyway, he could still have deceived me and ran a joint account. The point is I shouldn’t have to be made aware of his spending

@BountifulPantry I can’t think about spending money at the minute but yes I do think we need something along those lines. After another chat today and me reaffirming my position and telling him to fuck off if he can’t handle it, I think he is starting to understand but he can be like this. So pig headed at times that he thinks I should be more accommodating of his feelings or get over things quicker but not now.

@pikkumyy77 yes I’ve been looking more in depth today at bank statements and income, need to see more but he’s out working tonight. He knows this is his problem and he will resolve it and I will put a plan in place and he will follow it. Tonight before he went to work I made him tell me why he was working, I needed to hear it - to pay my debt he said. Every time he goes out to work my son moans, misses him or is sad, I tell him dad is out working to pay for all the nice things he has. That is killing me the most. The things we could have had for 20k

im trying to work out how profitable the taxi is, petrol, car maintenance, taxi insurance is dear, he does courses now and again he has to pay for himself. Surely doing deliveries would make better use of the car for less outgoings. Hes adamant he wants to taxi and in his wee narrow mind he believes it’s very lucrative.