I can’t explain what modesty means to my dd age 21

[coffeegirl73]

Does modesty exist any more or is it just another outdated misogynistic concept designed to keep women under control. I don’t know but I’m interested what you all think. I was in a catholic school with nuns and learnt a lot about modesty. I can’t explain it to dd though - she just keeps saying but why shouldn’t women bare whatever they want . It’s confusing me

Were you wearing low cut tops so people would look?

@WhenYouSayNothingAtAll exactly . You didn't need to point that out and was kind of the point of my post.

What other people were doing never entered my head.

going out type tops tended to be cut low. I can only buy what the shops sell.

in summer/ on holiday I’ll expose more skin to get a tan/avoid tan lines.

I dress for the weather/ comfort/ practicality

I manage to wear outfits that don't reveal my bosom. But as it's a free country, you do you.

Of course it still exists - in the minds of everyone, including your daughter (she presumably isn't going out naked). It's just that different times / places / cultures draw the line in different places. There are women in niqabs who think it's immodest to let strangers see their hair or faces (which you presumably don't agree with). Edwardians would have thought it indecent if a woman's skirt wasn't scraping the floor and someone got a glimpse of ankle (ditto). Whereas in modern western culture we've settled on "genitals and breasts to be kept under wraps in public" and beyond that, well, depends who you are and where you are and what you're doing. I think nowadays most of us take umbrage not so much at bare flesh itself as seeing it out of context, e.g. bikini tops are fine at the beach but not what you want to see when meeting your new colleague in the office or anything at all formal. And then there are some tribes where women just go about topless and that's normal. It's just about where the line is.

It does seem possible that your DD genuinely doesn't understand the concept of "modesty" in the sick sense of "don't go about looking like you're woman-shaped or it'll be your fault if men act like perverts" (is that the message the nuns gave you?), because she just hasn't been raised like that and it doesn't occur to her. Which would be a good thing.

In your youth you went clubbing in polo necks?

if you are somewhere hot and dancing you dress for the purpose.

I have honestly never thought about how much ‘bosom’ was showing in any top I’ve worn.

I wear bikinis to swim/sunbathe so as long as that’s covered what’s the problem??

It’s quite internalised misogyny to think your body is something shameful to be covered.

I didn't go clubbing. I don't drink.

To be honest I’m all in favour of dressing modestly for both sexes, but seeing as men refuse to do it I don’t think women should be expected to either. I would love nothing better than to not see swathes of men stripped to the waist every summer in shops, pubs etc but that’s not going to end, and I don’t like the double standard.

As part of my religion both men and woman and told to cover up certain parts of their body.

🙄

I have no desire to see another woman's tits and bare arse when I go out for a drink . . .

At the gym we wipe down the seats on the equipment after use . . .

Even nudists carry towels everywhere for hygiene reasons . . .

To me it's not about how much skin is covered, it's about self respect and that's also about how you carry yourself.

You can wear a top with a cleavage down to your belly button or have your bum hanging out of high cut shorts, but the fact is that is that if you have enough boob to have a cleavage, that will be presenting a sexual image to others.

Do you want to be seen in a way that reduces you to one layer or do you want to be seen as the entire human being you are?

The choice belongs to everyone as an individual.

You don’t have to drink to go to a club.

As a Muslim I would not visit a nightclub.

This isn’t a Muslim country.

most young people have gone to a nightclub at least once.

it’s hot and you are dancing.

dressing appropriately = scant clothing

She didn’t say it was a Muslim country. She’s still entitled to an opinion though, like everyone
else.

My religion teaches me what is right and what is wrong. I would never set foot in a nightclub.

But I do know what they are and I know many men and young boys have a jolly good time "dancing and sweating" in a shirt and trousers

Weird post

There’s dressing modestly and dressing ‘appropriately’. A lass (late teens) at Church yesterday was in those shorts that look like the PE knickers I wore in 1976 and a bra type strappy top with all her torso exposed. she honestly looked like she was in her underwear. Appropriate for church? Not in my book, appropriate for hanging out at the local fete, sure.

I hadn’t heard of it but I just read every story. Heart breaking.

I find that post quite chilling.

no wonder people are becoming more right wing/reform orientated.

15 years on Mumsnet I’ve never been told it’s wrong/immoral to go to a nightclub.

It's what my religion teaches me and for very good reason. It's full of alcohol which is a poison and damaging to people. Full of arguably very lustful behaviour.

How many fights, stabbings, and sexual assaults all happen in nightclubs?

Our religion teaches us to avoid this completely.

Statistically most sexual assaults occur in a residential location, so at home. Perpetrated by someone the victim knows, usually a romantic partner.
Typically stabbing occur in urban areas, mostly during robberies or violent assaults. Quite often gang related. Most nightclubs have bouncers and on entering many nightclubs, bags and bodies are searched for weapons and drugs on arrival.

And how many people complain that the bouncers are creepy and/or don't take them seriously when reporting an assault. I know many young women who unfortunately have had their bums grabbed by men in clubs. How many young women get spiked?

How often do drunken arguments sprawl out into senseless violence?

I know what my religion teaches me and I know what to stay away from.

I don’t know how many people complain about bouncers or get spiked. Do you? Do you have any statistics to back it up? This isn’t about what your religion teaches you. This is about actual facts and well documented crime stats. The fact is violent crimes and sexual assault can happen anywhere, but more commonly occurs in the victims home. And, as per the theme of the thread, it’s also nothing to with how modest they are.