I can’t explain what modesty means to my dd age 21

[coffeegirl73]

Does modesty exist any more or is it just another outdated misogynistic concept designed to keep women under control. I don’t know but I’m interested what you all think. I was in a catholic school with nuns and learnt a lot about modesty. I can’t explain it to dd though - she just keeps saying but why shouldn’t women bare whatever they want . It’s confusing me

Religion is USED to oppress women. But the cause is men and the fact that they want to do it. It's about power, property and ownership. Not true religion at all.

I dress “modestly” ie I’ll wear shorts and skirts but not so short you can see my butt and I try not to wear tops that show much cleavage (I have an ample bosom!) but to me it’s about respect for others. No one wants to see that much of me! And men gawp whether I have anything on display or not.

Modesty is keeping a little back for the imagination!!!!

You can wear what you want of course and don’t need to cover up from head to toe - but personally I like to keep a little back and not have everything on show !

I go along the lines of what’s in the law, you aren’t allowed to be naked in public so private areas should be covered like boobs / genitals and bums (this included bum cheeks).

I don’t like the word modest as it feels a more woman specific word, however classy is applied to both sexes. For me classy is more what the royals wouldn’t do as a an example. Which is easy to show children for both sexes.

I agree that anyone should be able to wear what they want within the law, but people need to understand that the way we dress and imply things to others. Like punk clothing etc

Is that true though? I feel like there’s at least a thread a week on mumsnet about how young blokes need to pull their trousers up!

I suppose modesty in a basic sense is about dressing in a way that doesn’t deliberately attract attention and say “look at me”. What it means in practice varies from culture to culture though.

In my case I think it’s about dressing appropriately for the occasion (bikini is fine for the beach, not for Tesco) and not exposing parts of your body that people who are not your intimate partner do not want to see (see thong bikinis which don’t cover enough, or not wearing knickers and wearing a very short skirt). In other cultures the term is used to control women, particularly restricting activities.

There is a time and a place for being immodest, the beach, the club etc. Anywhere else immodesty all the way as far as I’m concerned but my later teen early twenties daughters obviously have their own views which I don’t police.

Unfortunately social media plays a part. Young girls as young as 13 in tiny outfits pouting and bending over on tiktok videos. It’s a attention seeking generation for many.

Telling women to cover up because their bodies should be hidden, and they have a duty to avoid tempting men, is a misogynist means of control. This is because its based in the idea that women are the evil temptresses, and men can't help their urges, so we need to help good men stay good. It's also about women as posessessions that are the property of individual men and should keep themselves for their eyes only.
Conversely the modern messaging to women that they should 'wear what they like' 'their body their choice' has also become a misogynist means of control. Because its only ever said to encourage women to wear clothes that reveal a lot of their bodies (never about sack dresses from Boden, is it?) Clothes that are also often uncomfortable, restricting and impractical.
Increasingly younger women are 'choosing' these clothes with the belief and mantra it's 'empowering', when by huge coincidence their 'empowerment' means men get to view their bodies. Women's clothing choices are controlled by the fashion industry and media, and its almost impossible to identify what is genuine free choice and and what is the result of misogynist influence.

I'm atheist and I dress modestly because I hate how men talk about women's bodies. My version of modesty is half sleeve or knee length or longer and no cleavage or torso showing. I know men will sexualise anything even a pair of hands or ears but you have to draw the line somewhere between my comfort and practical living versus existing with the male gaze.
I actually think modesty is more feminist than not. We'll never be equal with men because of how they view sex and women and covering my body is my way of having some control over how I'm viewed and how much of me is accessible to their dirty gaze.

I don't cover up because I'm a temptress, I cover up because most men are disgusting and it's a way of minimising getting male attention. I'm not ashamed of my body, I'm angry at men.

This. The fact you can’t explain it should tell you something about yourself.

what is the context here? I mean if you were talking about your schooldays and describing how you were brought up, its one thing but if you are trying to get her to change how she chooses to dress then the best of luck with that! For people who are saying that in the Uk, there are legal limits, there are not, its the INTENTION or OUTCOME that is illegal.

I tend to dress fairly “modestly” because

1. it’s my body not an object of art for general display
2. I find it most comfortable and practical - I hate tight ( typo) stuff for example
3. if I want and need respect from people it’s generally a safer bet
4. really who wants to see my wobbly bits and varicose veins

it’s interesting that men do this - dress modestly on the main - but it isn’t called modest - just clothes

Women should be able to bare what they want. If they want to wear thong bikinis, go for it.

Modesty is a word tied to religion and oppression.

Her body and hiw she presents it is something she will explore for many years.

As a youth, I found power in baring skin and "being sexy"; men wanting what they can't have. As a woman, my power is in not "being sexy" but in knowing that random blokes don't get the privilege of seeing something for nothing.

Ultimately, I came around to a "fuck male gaze" standpoint. Why should they get all the benefits of eyeing up "empowered" women, while still holding a deep rooted belief that the should have the top jobs and a hot dinner to come home to? (I'm oversimplifying, but the number of mumsnet posts where he's "a good dad" but still wants his wife to "manage like other women" while he goes to work full time (same as she often does) AND does everything else has ruined men for me.

Modesty means showing your personality, beliefs and knowledge to the world, not your boobs.

For me it's about power and equality. If men aren't out in cropped tops, skin tight leggings skimpy whatever - why not? If it feels like a strange or comical idea for men to dress like that then there's something going on that's about more than "individual choice", there's something about power or inequality going on. Same in the other direction - if men aren't expected to cover their hair or their whole body then why not? Why women? That to me is the prompt to ask questions about power and inequality.

Yes I’m am loathe to think my dds need to cover up due to the male gaze but on the other hand I don’t want them being seen as sex objects. It’s so complex.

mumsnet seems intent on making everything about women’s issues.

Modesty is still alive and well for everybody. My husband doesn’t just whip off his top when he’s hot, neither do I. When my kids need the toilet and we’re outside, we find a discrete spot. We use towels when changing at the beach.

Your daughter is young and she won’t have a holistic view on things yet. Modesty isn’t misogyny. She’ll likely cringe in later years, as I do when I think about what I used to wear (which really was about getting attention than my rights as a woman)

Loads of women were thong bikinis. I’m guessing you’re all for your husband and son wearing the same?

Modesty is a load of bollocks. Women should be able to wear what they want. The key words here being women and want. If women feel forced (by a person,society,religion etc) to cover up then that's wrong and so is being pressured into wearing little. Modesty as a concept is rooted in misogyny.

On the one hand requiring women to cover themselves can be tantamount to hiding women away, and is victim blaming for men's actions, as if they cannot help but be inflamed by any part of women's bodies being on display. Enforced modesty is not freedom.

At the other end of the scale it's not exactly empowering to go around with your arse hanging out as you are making choices through being unwittingly controlled by the patriarchy.

The key components for me are choice and freedom. Most women and girls in free countries dress in a manner somewhere in between outraging public decency or covered up to the extent that not even your face or eyes can be seen. And chosen modesty, loose fitting clothes can be a lot more comfortable than tiny fashion clothing and dressing to serve a trend. Most people find a happy medium, it doesn't have to be one or the other. I'm 49 and happily wear short shorts or a skort in warm weather, but I wouldn't wear a mini skirt (other than if I were going out of an evening, perhaps) as usually they are not as comfortable, as I'd be worried about showing my pants. Though I did notice when washing DD2's sequinned mini, that it has shorts attached - fab!

And obviously there are no objective interpretations of modest or immodest dress. As demonstrated by the thread about leggings the other day.

Off course it is up to you as a mother to tell her. If she’s wearing that and going out then there’s not a person who would think she doesn’t look trashy, attention seeking and disrespecting herself.

I dress “modestly” because I get a lot of moles and have had two removed already…. Skin cancer, no thanks. I haven’t melted away in the heat yet. I wear floaty, natural fabrics etc.

I think because I’m used to dressing this way, I do now find it strange when I see someone with their boobs or arse hanging out and think “aren’t you uncomfortable”? I also see a lot more larger ladies like myself doing it and wonder why they want to put themselves in the firing line of idiot men.

It’s quite freeing not to be gawped at. Spent lots of my young years wearing tight clothing/mini skirts etc and it is so nice not dealing with icky men. So I can understand how the whole concept of hijab came about. My old work friend who wears one years ago said she found it freeing and I’m only just starting to understand!

I was raised modestly, Catholic family. Found the school showers excruciating. I'd never seen naked bodies. I'm the same now at the gym, avert eyes and change in a cubicle.

My husband just doesn't like to see big girls with everything hanging out of shorts, crop tops, etc.

Weirdly when young with two children, very slim. While abroad went topless. My husband took a picture of me walking along the beach with the little ones. It was a lovely picture. I still hid it away and have lost it.