To think this is a batshit holiday with kids

[HollaNack]

I share 3 kids 7,8,9 with my ex of 2 years. He has booked summer plans to take them all in his van through France for 3 weeks, ending at a waterpark.

Am I being really precious, or is this insanely inadvisable with 3 small kids?

We're not unfamiliar to van life. We lived in one together for 2 years in Europe, pre kids. The van is the 'family' camper, the kids know it well, it's all equipped and goes well when it starts.

But the risks are insane. Huge risk of drowning with 1:3 ratio staying weeks at a waterpark. Tiredness, cranky hot kids, fights, cooking, missing mum, no respite or somewhere comfy to sit and stare at cartoons in a language you don't even understand.

It's not a civil breakup. I have an NMO against him and the kids are only just getting round to being comfortable staying the night at his.

I just feel like this screams 'manchild biting off more than he can chew and risking his kids happiness/safety/lives in the process'

I'm aware that I could do Specific Issue Order but honestly, it would feel a little petty. He does not listen to reason and this is going to be my lot for the next 10 years. So I'm trying to see how this could possibly be an ok idea. Also because I'm trying to balance Positive Outlook with the kids, vs not completely gaslighting them when they raise their own concerns (so far mostly around timescale).

Do we think this could be ok? Am I being precious? Or do I need to try and stop this?

YABU: They're not babies, let them have their adventure
YANBU: This idea is indeed batshit and must be stopped at all costs

And actually the holiday itself is irrelevant, people saying ‘it sounds great my dc would love it’ are missing the point. It’s subjective. 3 weeks living and sleeping in a van sounds shit to me. I also hate camping holidays but can appreciate that others enjoy them.

But the op is best placed to know what her kids will enjoy and what they might struggle with. The fact he isn’t willing to discuss it or listen to any concerns or compromises is a problem in itself. He just wants to plough on with what he wants regardless of anyone else’s thoughts or wishes.

They are not that small. I’m sure it will be fine, I think you’re looking for issues so you can say they can’t go. Literally none of the things you’ve listed are your problem, this is divorce. You need to get used to it and don’t ruin their experiences!!

@HollaNackYou said no? Hmm. You might get backlash from the kids about that. They don’t forget.

I’d also add that a few years ago my ex took my dc on a holiday I didn’t think was especially suitable (not giving details as it’s quite outing) and the upshot was dc were whiny, bored and unhappy. They ended up having a blazing row and I had my dc on the phone begging me to go get them. It was awful and I’ve never felt so stressed and helpless.

When they got back they didn’t speak to their dad for the best part of a month. It took a long time to rebuild. And to this day ex takes no responsibility and just accused dc of being bratty.

Depends on the kids I think. Mine are a nightmare at water parks, very stressful. But I see other families with their kids stating close and not running off.
7 to 9 is also ok if the older ones are good swimmers and wont disapear on him to he is frantically chasing them all about.
I can't imagine he is going to have much of a relaxing holiday though 😂

I'd be concerned there's another adult going. That person isn't going to care about your children the same way but might end up being in sole charge of them at times. The adults might assume each other has an eye on them and blame each other if something goes wrong. Whereas if it's just Dad there, everyone knows he's supposed to be the responsible one. Is the guest likely to be a bad influence on Dad and/or the kids, do you know them?
It sounds like it could be a fun adventure for them if everything goes well. How sensible are your children? There might be some practical things you can do now to help them with certain circumstances that could arise which also might help alleviate some of your worries.

Mine would love that! And I'd have happily taken them all to a waterpark at those ages by myself. They could all swim sufficiently by then though. I'd probably also be inclined to ask if 2 weeks was possible, but only cos I wouldn't want to be away from them that long.

I think if he wants to do it, has sufficient insurance for both the van and the kids, then go for it. They'll likely remember it forever! I can't even convince my ex to have the children overnight, so even if he's doing it to prove a point/whatever, I'd snap it up. If it's as dreadful as you're imagining, he won't be offering again next year 😂

Well they don't know I said 'no'. What I actually did was ask for 1 or 2 weeks instead of 3.

I'm trying to give them water safety tips/tools to use, to ensure if it does go ahead, they feel confident and happy and safe.

I'm trying to hype them up about it because it sounds like it's really very unlikely to stop it. And I really don't want them going with a negative mindset for their own sake.
But he knows I'm not happy with the plan.

Re other questions from PP:

1. I know the friend, he is pretty chill, no temper that I've seen, I have no reason to think he's a danger to kids in a sexual way. I mean, nobody ever does do they. But I get no creepy vibes, and the kids are comfortable around him.

1. NMO is for violence and emotional abuse towards me. Kids saw most. Not pleasant, but equally, it's over and when he has them, he's good to them.

None of this is ideal. But I also think as PP have said, it's not Court Order gravity either.

Noted re safety and wellbeing tips, and I do remind them that I gave them all siblings to look after each other in mad situations like this.

Yeah, my DC wouldn’t have wanted to spend three weeks away from me at that age either. I accept yours might not be bothered, but it really isn’t selfish of OP. She has explained the background and isn’t being unreasonable.

I would be much more worried if he intended to park the van near a beach. Water park? Can’t see the problem.

Their games consoles, own bedrooms, all their toys etc

I'm surprised so many saying yabu. This is a man who committed dv against the kids' mother, in front of them. She had a NMO. But pp are blithely saying 'go for it, a great adventure!' Not someone I would trust with 3 kids for 3 weeks.

OP, as for him saying 'tough, it's happening anyway'... I'm not sure he can. I think (I may be wrong) that it is against the law to take children out of the country without both parents' permission. And I assume you have their passports? Don't be bullied to go against your better judgement.

This thread is really dangerous.

There is a man already on a NMO severe enough to stop contact and access, with violence in front of the children and people are saying yes go for it op?? It’s three weeks with a man KNOWN to lose his temper. Known to get violent. The children have only ever spent one night at a time with him.

I sometimes worry about this site, and the advice it produces at times. Sending fairly young children off with a violent man would certainly not be suggested by any professional body I have ever worked with in this field.

The consensus is generally that supervised contact centres should be used.

You keep saying he hasn’t hurt them op, but he very much has hurt them - they have witnessed everything you said. Are you seriously going to let him take them and run the risk?

Jesus-I missed the NMO and the violence! Of COURSE they shouldn’t go and you should go and get a court order to stop it. Everything else is beside the point.

Sounds like a great holiday to me. Unless the dc have additional needs 1:3 supervision is fine at the water park, they are life guarded and tend to be shallow. In the sea wearing life vests is a good option if not strong swimmers.

If he doesn’t have access that’s obviously different but as a holiday it’s fun

I too would want to know who the other man is, who is willing to go on holiday with 3 of someone else’s young children , even in his own tent.
That would worry me.
Would your ex watch his children like a hawk ?
He’d need to.
What about the evening - you say he’s not a day drinker - would he go off drinking with his mate and leave the children “cos they’re asleep” ?

Hide their passports.

Until last summer I’d have said it would be fine if they are good swimmers. However we went to a water park with my 11 year old. We did a ride a bit like a fast lazy river. I could see her but she was a bit of a way in front of me due to the way the waves were working. I was on my way towards her when a group of guys in their late teens/early twenties came barrelling through and went right over the top of her and she just vanished from view. It took me less than a minute to reach her but that’s because I knew where she’d gone under. No lifeguards saw and she wasn’t visible once she was under because the group was all on top of her with their tyres. It was the longest minute of my life trying to get to her through the water and the other people. Some guy next to her saw her and managed to haul her up before I got there but she was hysterical and it turned out she’d also smacked her head on the bottom. It was fine, she was fine, I think she was under for maybe 20 seconds, but it could so so easily not have been ok. She still talks now about how it felt to have all the tyres on her head and not being able to breathe.
Id be very, very wary of a water park with younger children and only one adult now. I still feel slightly sick when I think about it - I will never forget seeing her just disappear and not coming up.

Yes I agree @babybythesea . I think I’m fairly relaxed but I keep my eyes on my kids around water like this since my cousins child nearly drowned in a swimming pool on holidays, when she was there, just distracted. Luckily some man spotted him. I wouldn’t be counting on lifeguards in this places.

They're 7,8 & 9. They're all years past being small kids 🤨

I think the nmo for violence would be a no for me. One night is one thing, but a confined space for several weeks is a recipe for disaster for someone with a proven short fuse and violent tendencies.

They can all swim. He’s taking a friend so the ratio is 3:2 in the water park.

YABU he is their parent too.

This sounds like a you problem. You sound like you'll miss them and you're afraid they'll enjoy themselves being with him more than you.

All perfectly natural but at least own it.