To think this is a batshit holiday with kids

[HollaNack]

I share 3 kids 7,8,9 with my ex of 2 years. He has booked summer plans to take them all in his van through France for 3 weeks, ending at a waterpark.

Am I being really precious, or is this insanely inadvisable with 3 small kids?

We're not unfamiliar to van life. We lived in one together for 2 years in Europe, pre kids. The van is the 'family' camper, the kids know it well, it's all equipped and goes well when it starts.

But the risks are insane. Huge risk of drowning with 1:3 ratio staying weeks at a waterpark. Tiredness, cranky hot kids, fights, cooking, missing mum, no respite or somewhere comfy to sit and stare at cartoons in a language you don't even understand.

It's not a civil breakup. I have an NMO against him and the kids are only just getting round to being comfortable staying the night at his.

I just feel like this screams 'manchild biting off more than he can chew and risking his kids happiness/safety/lives in the process'

I'm aware that I could do Specific Issue Order but honestly, it would feel a little petty. He does not listen to reason and this is going to be my lot for the next 10 years. So I'm trying to see how this could possibly be an ok idea. Also because I'm trying to balance Positive Outlook with the kids, vs not completely gaslighting them when they raise their own concerns (so far mostly around timescale).

Do we think this could be ok? Am I being precious? Or do I need to try and stop this?

YABU: They're not babies, let them have their adventure
YANBU: This idea is indeed batshit and must be stopped at all costs

YABU. To be honest, I suspect the animosity between you is colouring your judgement, and that you’d find fault with any holiday he chose for them. That’s understandable, but I do think you need to chill out and stop looking for problems.

The kids aren’t babies and he is as much their parent as you are. Sometimes you have to accept that the other parent does things differently from you. I’m sure it’ll be hard work for him and I’m the kids will have their moments of whinging and kicking off. But is that the end of the world, really? They’ll have an adventure and mostly a great time.

The holiday itinerary itself sounds great. There’s also nothing wrong in watching cartoons in a different language, they’ll still get the what’s happening. The Powerpuff Girls will always be Les Super Nanas to me.

However, I wouldn’t be happy at all about a random men going with them. That would make me pause way more than any driving, foreign cartoons or waterparks combined.

And if he doesn’t bring them back….

It’s an amazing holiday. Get the kids extra swimming lessons. They will love this!

And if he is not a ‘day drinker’ then he must be a night drinker, and how is that any safer for the children? Add on the weird friends staying over and the distance. How is anyone coming to the conclusion that this is safe - dear god.

Can you explain why there is a non mol order op? Please.

Err the random man with them would be my concern, not the water park.

YAB massively U. Sounds like a dream holiday. Half the stuff you've said is nonsense, e.g. cartoons being in French. They'll have the internet and full access to English language programmes, and what a ridiculous objection anyway. They will obviously have the time of their lives.

Nine year olds can walk home from school alone. It is perfectly normal and reasonable for children of that age to be "unattended" for short periods.

In my local pool you would only need one adult for those ages. The 8 & 9 would be allowed in without an adult, but the 7 year old would need an adult with them.

I'm afraid of them getting stolen.

It's really very rare for kids to get stolen, and I can't imagine why you would worry about this of all things.

I am saying YANBU due to one bit of information: that they are only now getting comfortable being in his care. I actually think the trip itself is fine but for that length I think they should be completely comfortable and content with the parent taking them.

The holiday itself is completely fine and sounds greaf.

Is he a night drinker? Like is he a bit of a drinker because I’d be worrried about that. But I’d be really concerned about the friend going with him! Why would this man want to go on a family holiday?

They will most likely have a whale of a time and they will be holidays they remember fondly for a lifetime.

I remember my holidays between 7 and 10 far more vividly than those between 12 and 15 actually.

2 adults and 3 kids is fine too.

It’s three weeks without them that is the biggest problem - why does he have so long with them? Will he go three weeks without seeing them for the rest of the summer?

An 8 and 9 year old can go in the pool independently in my U.K. town. Although I must admit the ratio would concern me but they are not toddlers.

it sounds like a great holiday.

They are not small kids, they are the perfect ages for that type of trip.

I’d be concerned because your DC are still getting used to overnights at his, the random friend he’s planning to bring, and the great big bloody NMO! If none of those things were a concern, then yes it’s a great holiday.

If he won’t compromise, then yes, get a specific issue order. That’s not petty, that’s safeguarding.

I call reverse. The journey sounds fun, waterpark fine for those ages if they can swim.

It seems like a lot of posters have missed this bit.
I have an NMO against him and the kids are only just getting round to being comfortable staying the night at his.
I can't believe someone suggested you were jealous of him

YANBU to be worried OP. Three weeks is too long if they are only just getting used to staying with him for one night.

The problem is if you say he is unreasonable, will he stop you ever taking them on holiday to get back at you?

The van and waterpark thing sounds fine to me but then I grew up living permanently in vehicles as the youngest of four siblings, across several countries. My parents were I suppose somewhat neglectful but they managed to keep us safe.

I would however be worried about the kids going abroad for three weeks with someone they don't appear to have a very close relationship with.

I think it's a rather ambitious plan in terms of everyone actually having fun but I wouldn't be trying to stop it if your DC are wanting to go.

What would the care schedule be if they didn't go on the trip? A lot of commenters are focusing on the 3 weeks being too long but that's actually not an abnormal time for DC that age to go with a non-residential parent over summer holidays. I understand that 3 weeks anywhere with your ex sounds like hell to you but I'm guessing your children don't have the same level of hate for him.

But the risks are insane. Huge risk of drowning with 1:3 ratio staying weeks at a waterpark. Tiredness, cranky hot kids, fights, cooking, missing mum, no respite or somewhere comfy to sit and stare at cartoons in a language you don't even understand.

An adult supervising 3 children that age at a waterpark with lifeguards is perfectly fine. That's well within the ratio you'd have for a school trip involving water activities for example.

None of the rest are actual risks at all, they're just potentially unfun things and the sort you could name for any sort of holiday or day trip with kids. The upside of this particular trip is that it will be fairly easy to cut it short if everyone's fed up - it's far better than planning 3 weeks in hotels with flights on either end in that respect, or even renting a holiday cottage or similar.

summer plans to take them all in his van through France for 3 weeks, ending at a waterpark.
This sounds fun and perfectly doable.

It's not a civil breakup. I have an NMO against him and the kids are only just getting round to being comfortable staying the night at his.
Then No. With this information the idea does indeed sound 'batshit' as you rather cavalierly describe it. Your language seems quite flippant, tbh ('fellow fuckwit') but maybe that is just your vibe. Time to start talking grown-up.

I believe you that he's a piece of shit and is biting off more than he can chew. However the age of the kids means they will most likely be absolutely fine on this holiday.. it's him that will struggle to cope. Because you're right they are going to get bored and edgy in a space that tight for so long.. in the heat as well. But that's his issue and his lesson to learn.
He's their other parent as shit as it is, and he does have a right to take them on holiday and this really isn't in the realms of there being a legitimate reason to stop it tbh.
Yes you are right that it probably won't go very well but that's not a reason to prevent them going.
I don't agree with the safety concerns really I just don't see that it's particularly risky. You say very young kids but those are not actually very young kids. They are all of an age where they could call you if they needed help.

I would think it is all perfectly fine and your worries are out of proportion to the actual risk. Except

the kids are only just getting round to being comfortable staying the night at his
three weeks with him seems a big leap if they aren't used to spending long with him. That would bother me a lot.

Is there any chance he could be persuaded to make the holiday shorter?

Yeah, I know what causes that.