To think this is a batshit holiday with kids

[HollaNack]

I share 3 kids 7,8,9 with my ex of 2 years. He has booked summer plans to take them all in his van through France for 3 weeks, ending at a waterpark.

Am I being really precious, or is this insanely inadvisable with 3 small kids?

We're not unfamiliar to van life. We lived in one together for 2 years in Europe, pre kids. The van is the 'family' camper, the kids know it well, it's all equipped and goes well when it starts.

But the risks are insane. Huge risk of drowning with 1:3 ratio staying weeks at a waterpark. Tiredness, cranky hot kids, fights, cooking, missing mum, no respite or somewhere comfy to sit and stare at cartoons in a language you don't even understand.

It's not a civil breakup. I have an NMO against him and the kids are only just getting round to being comfortable staying the night at his.

I just feel like this screams 'manchild biting off more than he can chew and risking his kids happiness/safety/lives in the process'

I'm aware that I could do Specific Issue Order but honestly, it would feel a little petty. He does not listen to reason and this is going to be my lot for the next 10 years. So I'm trying to see how this could possibly be an ok idea. Also because I'm trying to balance Positive Outlook with the kids, vs not completely gaslighting them when they raise their own concerns (so far mostly around timescale).

Do we think this could be ok? Am I being precious? Or do I need to try and stop this?

YABU: They're not babies, let them have their adventure
YANBU: This idea is indeed batshit and must be stopped at all costs

I think you are overly worried about water risks if they are at supervised waterparks and the kids can swim. Open ocean would be a different story.
I'd be a bit more worried about the friend tagging along him. Male/female? Do they kids know them?

They are too young to be 3 weeks without their usual resident parent.

On this basis alone I would say no.

Did you really have a child every year for 3 years? My mil did but it is unusual these days.

The kids need to stay longer at his before they go for three weeks. The ideal would be a few days away in the van first. My DD's ex is building up the time he goes camping with her children 7 and 10. Other than that, it sounds fine and they are the perfect age to enjoy this. Are they all the same sex? Things might get tricky in the future, so best yo make the most of it, once they are confident being away with him.

Hi op

I would refuse on the basis of un unknown male puts your children at unecessary risk. Very unlikely but what if they were sexually abused?

I wouldn't be happy with 3 children going away with two men for weeks on end. I'm sorry, but abuse statistically happens at a nuch higher rate from family or people known to the family.

I am not accusing your ex, he is their father and has a right to be with them... But this set up would make me highly uncomfortable.
It is likely that at certain points this friend will be alone with one or more of the kids if he is going to be helping with care. Your ex popping to the shops or the friend taking a kid back to camp who is tired or not feeling well.

1 in 6 girls and 1 in 20 boys are sexually abused (it's actually thought to be much higher than this but people don't report).

Not to mention your mentioned worries of not adequate supervision when in the water.

This is also a very long time to be cooped up together, missing home, missing you. I have a feeling they will all be fighting and miserable within a week.

Maybe it will be a good lesson for your ex and he will never want to do it again.

But the welfare of the kids would be my main concern.

relationship issues aside, that sounds like an awesome holiday.

I'd do that with my family, given the chance.

But you are right, that it could go horribly wrong because 3 weeks in a van with kids? He better be very prepared, because if it does go wrong, unhappy crying kids arguing and fighting, stuck in a van, for long periods of travel? Could be awful.

So I don't think the issue is the holiday itself, but more his capability, which only you can judge.

It’s not the water park it’s three kids in a van. Can’t imagine doing that in ours and it being a holiday in any sense of the word!

Why not ?

I can't vote because I think it is batshit but at the same time let him take them.

At least with a van if it is a disaster he can bring them back.

Those that say just let him, if it’s a disaster it’s on him, without really considering that it is very likely the children will suffer in this scenario.

There is a non mol in place for good reason and he has had very limited access to them. We still don’t know why? But on that basis it would be a no. Maybe a few days in this country at most would be the sensible way to begin…

An old friend tagging a long outs the children at additional risk.

Her ex is a drinker of some kind, so how is it safe to be doing that much driving?

The water element isn’t ideal either, because those places are heaving and packed in the summer, keeping an eye on all three children for the entire time isn’t going to be easy and they are too young to be using a water park alone. I wouldn’t have any confidence he could do this with so little experience. Swimming is fine, but they need cardio monitoring due to the number of strangers there and in case they hurt themselves. I have knee. Many dc hit their heads etc.

It’s a flat out no from me. It’s all too much too soon and you have to keep them safe.

Sorry for typos!
constant monitoring
in case they hit their heads

I love this sort of travelling-round holiday and I took mine road tripping through the states at those sort of ages. We've done the slow drive with stops down through France a few times. I think its a great, and reasonably safe, adventure.

But, I have primary custody at home, am used to looking after them, and they are used to being on their own with me all of the time. And its still quite hard work compared to a kids-club and pool holiday.

If it was me my biggest concern would be adequate supervision in the water park. If any of them aren't strong enough swimmers that you would let them be in a pool unattended then I would get them into some intense one-to-one swimming lessons between now and summer. Plus do some work on water safety and staying together between now and then.

If it was my ex I would also give him some sort of get-out clause, like if you need to bring them back early you can drop them on x, y or z date.

What happens if they actually don't want to go with him .3 weeks is a long time to be away from home

Depends on the children.

I don't think any type of holiday is good with a manchild

Its usually swimmers that drown because they believe they will be ok whereas non swimmers show more caution around water.

It's too much too soon & also sounds like he's deliberately picked something they will love to make it more difficult for you to say no.

So as always still playing games with you around control.

He's an idiot and who is the random mate going with him?

Mine would not be doing this.
Young kids don't automatically enjoy things like this. Especially if they are cranky and homesick.

There isn't a huge risk of drowning, why would you say that? Strange... You are exagerating a lot because you don't want them to go with your ex

If you read OP post, they have done similar in the past... pre kids. He has some experience and is actually a Dad that wants to spend time with his DC.

Personally I think it's a fantastic way for the DC to spend some time with dad.
And let's face it, DC will be semi feral on the campsites... what an adventure for them!

I think being in a van sounds like fun it’s him that will have to deal with kids if they are a bit cranky. The water park would worry me if he’s not responsible. The unknown friend would worry me , no idea what’s he’s like around children , if they are both night time drinkers will the children still be looked after properly? That’s before you get to the dangers of an unknown male.
The NMO was granted for a reason and three weeks with someone they have only just started having overnights with.
surley they need to build up to this.

It sounds like a great trip for them. You clearly have a huge problem with him though and that's coming across so I don't think he could do right here, whatever the holiday.

Has he actually looked after the children for that length of time before? If not, chances are he’ll be bringing them back before they get beyond Calais! Assuming that his reliable mode of transport/mobile accommodation actually gets to the port of Dover.

If the holiday is going to happen regardless, take them for a couple of refresher swim lessons. Ask the trainer to stress the no running, diving into shallow pools etc. Children often listen more to other adults than their parents. It might not be necessary given that they can swim, but it'll make you feel a lot better knowing they're water-wise.

Also chat to them about stranger danger and good touch, bad touch. I'm so paranoid about that kind of thing though, so it might be an overreaction.

I would not describe them as young children.
That's more like a 4 year old.
The ratio is fine for swimming - providing he is not going to let them go off alone?
The holiday sound amazing!
The random adult coming with would concern me.
3 weeks is ages to go without mum, especially if they're not fully happy going for one night.