I've messed up with 3 year old

[Neitherherenorthere1]

I lost it this morning with my 3.5 year old DD.
I shouted at her really loudly when she came downstairs at 630 am to start crying in my presence.
I told her to go upstairs and cry. My husband walked in from the gym at that exact same moment and is angry at me for it.

For context she cries all the time over everything and nothing. She only does this with me. She is perfect in nursery and an angel with my in-laws ( admittedly they do spoil her and pamper her which I don't do. I discipline her).
I will collect her from nursery and they will tell me she's been perfect but the minute we leave the nursery she starts crying having a meltdown and refuses to walk to the car. Same thing for bath time, bed time literally anything I need her to do. Including her hair in the mornings, breakfast getting changed. Her dad leaves before nursery runs and returns near bedtime for work. I'm really struggling with the constant loud crying that is soo hard to stop. She also hits when she doesn't get her way and yesterday pushed me because she didn't like her hair? She caught me off guard and I nearly toppled as I was putting dishes away. She also hits my DD10 constantly, kicks, pulls hair punches when she's annoyed or doesn't like something.
My husband thinks I'm tough on her with the constant telling off and thinking step etc.
shes different to my other DD's she has meltdowns on everything and doesn't seem to improve from the naughty step or having no games/treats if she hits but nothing is working.
i partly think it's my in-laws who spoil her and don't pick her up on her tantrums or hitting and make excuses for her. If I tell her off at my in-laws for doing something like spitting, jumping on a chair which was upside down and hearing a crack I get told off by my in-laws for always being on her back in of her!
I can't cope with her crying for no reason and I snapped. I know I shouldn't have but her crying triggers me. I'm sure there's so much more information I could add but it sounds so defensive.

Im so disappointed with myself but I am
loud as a person and working in the profession I do I have no patience for spoilt kids crying including my own.
please be kind I know I can do better but I dnt know how to stop her with her behaviours and tantrums as nothing that was effective with my older two DD (with different grandparents!!) works here and I am losing my mind.

@Neitherherenorthere1 your posts show that you love and care for your daughter, and the fact you’ve posted with honesty means you already know you want things to change . Think of this as the opportunity to look at your life balance overall so that you can feel that you have better resilience. I’ve been there, it can be done. Good luck!

Ignore OP. MN is full of sanctimonious people who would never EVER lose their cool with a whiny child who literally behaves for everyone on Earth except you.

There is a huge difference between you turning her away when she is upset because she has hurt herself or is feeling unwell, and if she is coming to you whining over ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

She’s 3, she has massive emotions and doesn’t know how to handle them herself and that’s why we teach them. As parents, we become their safe place to allow them to express their emotions freely, it’s really important for them to do this and to feel supported and seen and heard so that they learn how to regulate. Shouting at her wnd telling her to go upstairs and cry is not okay in my opinion, what does shouting achieve? You’ve sent her away to cry alone when she’s reaching out to you to feel safe and supported. Please think about this.

Thankfully I didn’t have a crying child, my friend did and although you are supposed to love all equally she has admitted it affected her love for him.
1/ At you in-laws- if you feel yourself about to tell her off - pause and calmly say “remember crying child, granny and grandpa don’t mind you behaving like this here but outside of this house it is not allowed.” And repeat. One of two things will happen, your in-laws will stop hounding you for telling her off, your partner will step up, in-laws will step up.

2/ tell you partner that he only sees crying child a fraction of the time, so if he wants to have more input then he can go to the gym when she is asleep and deal with her also.

3/ don’t beat yourself up about it, my friend is the most caring and calm person - it nearly broke her.

4/ tell true crying child you can’t possible help her because you don’t understand what she is crying about and she needs to stop and tell you with words.

5/let partner do bedtime routine, keep crying child up for him until you get them both in the routine.

6/ do you do the counting thing? “I’ll give you to the count if 10 to calm down and stop crying”works twofold- they have a limit and it gives you a breather even angry counting!

7/ I was yelled at as a child, had my backside tanned on numerous occasions. Swore blind we wouldn’t smack our kids, then middle child came along… he was been smacked a handful of times when his not listening got too much and or dangerous. First and Third child smacked once each ever for something serious. Every time I’ve done it it is because I lost control, because I had gone to the very edge. So far you have just yelled- so you’re going ok. I also never used to swear!

8/ chocolate and wine.

All kids are different. What worked for your others won’t necessarily work for this one. Also, other people may judge because they have never shouted at their little Petulia because little Petulia is an angel at the moment! No one has a perfect child forever!!!

There's a fantastic book I absolutely love and found invaluable when my first was this age called When Your Kids Push Your Buttons. I think it's only 99p on Kindle.

I used to say it's like therapy in a book. It's obviously not as good as real therapy and if you've had serious childhood trauma then maybe that would be worth looking into, and I'd go paid rather than NHS if it's an option at all, but the book might be helpful as an interim measure. It helps you reframe your child's behaviour and examine your own reactions to it which helps you feel less attacked/personally victimised and that translates to more access to your rational brain in the moments when they are pushing every button.

I agree with the posts saying you sound burnt out and dysregulated yourself. When you have a child who is much more intense and needs much more co-regulation than average this is an absolute essential. When do you get a break? When was the last time you stayed overnight somewhere without the DC? Had a night out? Had a full day to yourself to use as you like? Do you have a space at home which is JUST yours (or at the very least, just for you and DH?)

Do you have ways to self-regulate when you're starting to boil over - do you know how to recognise that you are even starting to boil over? I don't have childhood trauma, but I do have ADHD and this was a huge thing for me because I felt like the "rage" would come on out of nowhere and actually I was simply unaware of the earlier signs that things were building up too much. Still working on the ways to self-regulate. My default is to disengage and that is not always appropriate or helpful.

If you have a reactive nervous system whether that's from trauma history or from some kind of ND then it's really difficult to parent a very intense child who needs a lot of co-regulation. It's such a cliche but you can't pour from an empty cup - you need to be able to regulate yourself before you can help them. Some of those ear plug things which filter out or dampen certain frequencies of sound might help if crying is triggering a "fight or flight" response in you. Not because you should ignore the crying but because it will help you react compassionately if your head isn't totally scrambled by the sound of it.

For a practical approach which might help your DD in the short term, I would look at either or both of: The book How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk, and then get the app (which is by Mythic Owl and costs about £4) so that when you find yourself in the middle of a tough moment you can open the app and be reminded quickly of the ideas you've read in the book, which often make sense when you read them, but then in the moment they leave your head entirely.

And/or look at The ABCs of Everyday Parenting course on Coursera, which helps you replace automatic responses like shouting, threatening, punishing with more effective ways to change behaviour and encourage replacement behaviours. It's designed really well, it's free and the videos are only about 10 mins long and you can watch half of one at a time if you like and I found it helpful from the first one.

AIBU can be extremely robust for parenting advice! So well done for sticking with the thread and don't pay too much heed to posters who just want to kick you when you're down without offering any actual advice. She is little and I think you can turn this around - you are not your parents, you are already doing better than they did, and you don't need to be perfect - it's about finding reliable things to replace your automatic responses, making time and space for your own needs so you're not running on empty, seeing her as a little person having a hard time rather than out to get you/give you a hard time, and apologising/repair when you mess up. Simple, not necessarily easy but very very worth it and IMO you can do this step by step.

I didn't mean you were a rubbish parent.

The No thing is hard to get your head around as you want the behaviour to stop. Jumping on the couch - no, stop it. You could instead divert and change it to come and sit here and let's learn about butterflies or sea horses or sea dragons or otters or quokkas or whatever takes your fancy. The outcome is the same, she's no longer jumping on the couch. How you got to the outcome is different.

Kids and animals are very similar. If you're calm things tend to go smoothly. If you're tense, they mirror your energy and become tense and tetchy.

Honestly this is really upsetting to read. If my young child came to me crying my response would be empathy, not annoyance.

Simplistic view if you've never had an incessant crier of a child. I've had one - not crying because they're upset, just crying because they can. Hard to be empathetic to that when it's the normal state and happens 30 times a day.

Crying because they don't want to wear a certain pair of shoes.
Crying because you gave them orange squash instead of blackcurrent.
Crying because they can't find a certain toy.
Crying because they don't like the episode of Bing.
Crying because you said no to something.
Crying because you said it was time for a bath.
Crying because you put the milk on their cereal for them.

Ad infinitum.

Maybe I am a monster, but none of that makes me think "awwww poor wee darling".

100% agree with this. This is why we have a generation of feckless teenagers and young adults because of the trend for the softly softly all of the time approach. They can’t deal with following basic rules, like going to school on time because they’ve never had to. Then they get in to the real word and employers don’t bow don’t to them and their entitled attitude then they can’t cope because they’re had everything so easy and the real word shock horror doesn’t revolve around them!

“Little Hercules always loves showing everyone in the supermarket his emotions. He kicks and screams and bites and hits but we know he’s a happy boy just bursting to get out. We don’t believe in setting boundaries because we don’t want to restrict his personality so we give him everything he wants and never say no to him”

Honest to Christ like. Children need discipline and consequences. OP was a bit harsh but she’s learnt her lesson and she feels guilty. Cut her some slack FFS.

Oh gosh! This thread is crazy. OP you lost it with your daughter and shouted. You know you didn’t want to and don’t feel great about it, hence why you posted here. The amount of people who seem to be claiming to be perfect parents is insane. We all get overwhelmed and triggered at times and all lose our cool. You can’t be a perfect parent, just as you can’t be a perfect person. And if you were your child would be in therapy all their lives from not being able to live up to the crazy standard you set.

You can say sorry to your daughter and model how to pick up from a mistake. Then go and make yourself a cup of tea and give yourself a huge well done for all the millions of various ways you show her you love her all the rest of the time.

With the fixating on stuff needing to be done in a particular way - one of my DC is like this and a visual schedule of each routine has helped SO much. Both in ensuring that the adults do the routine in the "right" order so it doesn't unsettle him, but also so that he can see what the expected order is, and isn't relying on a picture in his head which might have been remembered inaccurately or based on one specific time which the adult has completely forgotten. It eliminates a lot of arguments.

Nurseries tend to thrive on routine and predictability, so this kind of thing is often what they do there and that might be one reason why she seems more settled at nursery, because things happen in the same predictable way each time.

It doesn't need to be really well made, it can literally be scribbled drawings on a scrap of paper.

And when she is screaming as soon as she wakes up, I would try having a snack available like some bread and butter or dry cereal, and possibly try a "supper" to see her through the night a bit more as well. IME constant whining and griping is often where they are uncomfortable and it can be hunger or toilet need related. Is she toilet trained and how regular are poos? We put "trying for a poo" into the bedtime routine and I honestly think it is the parenting hack of the century because it totally transformed moods. I think they were holding onto poo because they didn't want to stop playing/were worried about pooing on the loo and it led to discomfort and then worse behaviour.

I think you sound exhausted and overstimulated. When do you get downtime just for yourself? You really need to do some self care.

With your daughter I think she's getting a lot of attention for bad behaviour but I wonder how much she gets for her good behaviour. You really need to praise the good behaviour. I think you need decide what you are going to challenge and what you are going to ignore. What are the rules? I only tend to deal with things that are dangerous or aggressive. I wouldn't ignore hitting, kicking, spitting ect. Although, I find it better to make a fuss of the hurt person and remove the hitter.

Completely agree with this. Even without something like CBT, you might be able to find ways of switching mindset when feeling triggered by your DD's behaviour. Compassionate curiosity can be a helpful mindset to aim for - trying to understand her, whilst concerned with her best interests. Keep reminding yourself not to take things personally. I know that's easier said than done, but that's why mental preparation for tricky times of the day is important - calm, compassionate, wise, older....

Don't be too quick to make self deprecating assumptions about her response to you after nursery. At her age, strong positive emotions when tired can morph into negative emotions. The adrenaline of excitement can tip over into anxiety / anger.

Age 3 is really challenging. Lots of big emotions. I would shout sometimes and this was usually when I was overwhelmed and needed a break. What I'd imagine sometimes is the emotions washing over me and not touching me and take deep breaths. I'd try to be there and available for a hug if needed and be nearby holding space if she was too angry for a hug. If a child is crying they need us to be comfortable with that. It will pass and we don't need to try to stop it. No child should be punished for crying. Most of us probably were as kids but ideally we should be comfortable with emotions. And in response to a previous poster screaming and crying doesn't make anyone a 'naughty girl' it means that they are an overwhelmed 3 year old and need some emotional support from a parent.

Shouting at a 3 year old doesn't work .
Sounds like you need to control your temper.

Most of us react in a way we're not proud of at one time or another. My daughter was also about 2 or 3 the first time I did, I raised my voice at her - the circumstances were that I was ill with a virus that I ended up being signed off work for two weeks with and severe conjunctivitis, we'd had to walk down to the GP surgery and back, I felt like shit and I was trying to put eye drops in. She wasn't even really doing anything 'wrong', just trying to get my attention, and it was too much and I raised my voice. She was absolutely oblivious thankfully and didn't have any real concept of someone responding to her with sharpness. But I felt bad and honestly beat myself up about it for a very long time. Now she's almost 10 and frankly at this point I react poorly more often than I would like. I rarely shout but I can be sharp and I hate it. It's a constant process trying to be better. We can theorise all we like but there are times we will struggle as parents.

All I can really advise is to try and adapt how you react. You're disappointed in yourself so you know there are better options. Walk away more in the moment if you need to. Remember that her crying is communicating. Apologise when you react badly. It is an ongoing process and you'll probably never be the parent you want to be but you can take steps. Parenting is really really tough and really really relentless. It does get better - and it does get harder.

Your poor child, do better Mum!

I know people saying this get a lot of flak on Mumsnet but I can only speak from personal experience.

My eldest was like this. I found it very difficult to like her sometimes at that age. We encountered different behaviours over the years. At the age of 35 she has just been diagnosed with ADHD and OCD. She is still tricky to deal with and we are desperately hoping that they will find some medication that suits her.

Just something to ponder.

Some sanctimonious cunts on this thread

This is what she is trying to do. She’s asking for advice and “do better” is rather vague: any better ideas?

Not on Mumsnet 😆

Forget it OP. If you feel it's problematic, see a therapist.

3 year olds are very irritating and demanding.

Go easy on yourself. You reached breaking point and verbally told her so.
You’re going to get to that point sometimes because she’s chosen you to be the one she releases all her feelings on.
Apologise to her for snapping, explain that it is very hard on you to have to hear the crying and tantruming as often as you do and you both need to work on having better ways of expressing yourselves.
Cuddle and move on. X

Unless your in laws spend as much time with her as you do, how they treat her when they see her isn't going to counteract how you do, so there's no point looking to blame them. Sounds to me like she's a fairly typical 3.5 year old, and you're exhausted because you're getting to do all the tough times that trigger challenging behaviour (when she needs to do things she doesn't want to and/or is tired) by yourself. If there's no way of sharing the bad times with you H (he could have been there this morning not at the gym maybe?) then I think you'll just have to grit your teeth, and put her behaviour down to the circumstances rather than taking it personally and wait this stage out.

Shouting often comes from a place of tiredness and overwhelm, definitely don’t beat yourself up about it.

Well done you for trying generally to correct misbehaviour and instil some discipline and boundaries. That is sadly lacking nowadays.

I am appalled at behaviour I witness as a parent, and seeing other parents standing there saying or doing absolutely nothing. I’ve had parents outright lie about their child hurting mine, lying and blaming another child who had done nothing. Obviously now have little to do with them. No, you tell you child to stop hurting other people, give them a consequence and apologise to the child they hurt, not lie and try and get an innocent child in trouble? Disgraceful.

Whilst eating lunch at a friend’s we couldn’t believe how their kids are allowed to behave. Up and down like yo-yos, no please or thank you, shouting and screaming, jumping over sofas and trashing their house the whole day. Ours tried to copy, we obviously stopped them with a ‘no, we don’t do that in somebody else’s house’, they were like ‘oh it’s fine, we don’t mind’…well I do mind! I don’t want my own well behaved children dropping to your low standards.

Stick with it OP, you’ll have far better behaved children for it. If more parents said ‘no’ and ‘stop’ firmly and with authority, backed up by consequences, this world would be a better place.

So my armchair psychology is this:

Her crying is overstimulation. The reason I think that is because it's after leaving daycare. She can finally relax with her safe person (you).

Kids will always be the worst with their safe person. They know you love them regardless and they don't need to put on an act.

I personally found my highly emotional son works best with positive reinforcement rather than penalties, so I make a habit of thanking him when he does something good, even if it is "expected" behaviour. For example - "thank you for helping me take the trash out, I really appreciate it." As he's gotten older I've changed what I thank him for (it's natural at this point). So it'll be me randomly telling him how proud I am of him for X or Y, or how I noticed him do X & Y. When he cries about something and hes trying to talk i cant understand him, so ill offer a hug and tell him I can't understand what he's saying and when he's calmed down a bit we can talk about it. He's getting much better at regulating himself.

As an example of overstim at school: My son (i think he was 5) just burst into tears one day after school while he was at his in-home daycare (2nd mum really) over, seemingly, nothing. Shed msgd me about it and when I picked him up I asked him what that was about. He said he holds it in all day but he can only hold so much. Little things had upset him but he won't cry at school but he feels safe with me and Mel (2nd mum/daycare/friend).

Also, i raise my voice sometimes. I can't say it's something I'm proud of, but I'm also not NOT proud of it. I've explained to my son that if I've had to repeat myself or I feel like he's not listening I get frustrated (on the spectrum myself). Its normally stuff like yesterday when I'd asked him to do something and he'd half-assed it bc he had better things to do. Pissed me right off. Or he caught an attitude with me and I called him on it. When he'd calmed himself down (he was angry at not going for a bike ride - in sick and can't right now) he apologized for his attitude. He's a really great kid.

Anyway, he is very aware he's loved but that I'm not perfect and neither is he. Im goofy and weird and make him laugh and play board games and take him shopping, or to the park or friends houses. He's aware the angry times are an anomaly. In fact he's asked me before if I'm having a moment (forget what it was exactly but I was being irrational) and I couldn't help but laugh that my 8 yo had noticed and correctly identified it. And my response was "yes, yes I am". He laughed, I laughed, everyone was fine.