I've messed up with 3 year old

[Neitherherenorthere1]

I lost it this morning with my 3.5 year old DD.
I shouted at her really loudly when she came downstairs at 630 am to start crying in my presence.
I told her to go upstairs and cry. My husband walked in from the gym at that exact same moment and is angry at me for it.

For context she cries all the time over everything and nothing. She only does this with me. She is perfect in nursery and an angel with my in-laws ( admittedly they do spoil her and pamper her which I don't do. I discipline her).
I will collect her from nursery and they will tell me she's been perfect but the minute we leave the nursery she starts crying having a meltdown and refuses to walk to the car. Same thing for bath time, bed time literally anything I need her to do. Including her hair in the mornings, breakfast getting changed. Her dad leaves before nursery runs and returns near bedtime for work. I'm really struggling with the constant loud crying that is soo hard to stop. She also hits when she doesn't get her way and yesterday pushed me because she didn't like her hair? She caught me off guard and I nearly toppled as I was putting dishes away. She also hits my DD10 constantly, kicks, pulls hair punches when she's annoyed or doesn't like something.
My husband thinks I'm tough on her with the constant telling off and thinking step etc.
shes different to my other DD's she has meltdowns on everything and doesn't seem to improve from the naughty step or having no games/treats if she hits but nothing is working.
i partly think it's my in-laws who spoil her and don't pick her up on her tantrums or hitting and make excuses for her. If I tell her off at my in-laws for doing something like spitting, jumping on a chair which was upside down and hearing a crack I get told off by my in-laws for always being on her back in of her!
I can't cope with her crying for no reason and I snapped. I know I shouldn't have but her crying triggers me. I'm sure there's so much more information I could add but it sounds so defensive.

Im so disappointed with myself but I am
loud as a person and working in the profession I do I have no patience for spoilt kids crying including my own.
please be kind I know I can do better but I dnt know how to stop her with her behaviours and tantrums as nothing that was effective with my older two DD (with different grandparents!!) works here and I am losing my mind.

Children do need firm boundaries, otherwise they are hugely unhappy. Firstly I'd be avoiding the in laws until they can be civil with you - who are they to say you cannot discipline your child for spitting and breaking furniture?! For your DD it must be hugely confusing when some adults are smiley indulgently as she performs antisocial behaviours, and others (you and nursery) would not allow it. Secondly, you need a break. You appear to be working full-time, running all childcare before and after nursery/school and studying? And your husband thinks it is acceptable to waltz in from a morning gym session and harangue you for not being serene in the face of intolerable noise? He needs to get his arse in gear and be an equal parent.

There is nothing wrong with naming the behaviour you don't like, backed up with love for the child, i.e. "I love you, but I do not like the sound you are making as it hurts my ears. If you must make that sound, you will need to do it upstairs". We are raising children to be part of society, and they need to know young how they impact upon others. The crying, I would wager, is a learnt behaviour that gets your attention.

It can be really triggering when kids tantrum and whine, but a three year old needs love, understanding and boundaries, rather than discipline. There is absolutely no point being cross with a kid of that age during or after a tantrum, you can only show them you are there for them, which absolutely does not mean giving them everything they want at all. I am definitely not saying let your kids do what they want, just boundaries and logical consequences. I am really not an expert and often struggle with this all myself. Obviously she can't be allowed to hit your 10 year old but probably needs to be removed from the situation and than sat with until she calms down. I book that I believe is really good for this aged child is "hands are not for hitting", we used "teeth are not for biting" which is in the same series when our child was a bit younger and it really helped them, as in they actually stopped biting completely.

A book I would recommend for yourself is "Good Inside" by Becky Kennedy, it is amazing covering emotional care for both children and their parents, as well as strategies for managing children. Becky Kennedy also reads the book herself on audible if you prefer to listen, she reads it really well, it is almost like therapy. Another book I would recommend that has really helped us is "how to talk to little kids so they listen", which has loads of strategies and also an audio book if you prefer. Finally I would also recommend "the book you wish your parents has read", this is probably less practical than the other two books and I found it a bit triggering in places, but it did really help me to think with empathy about how small children feel. I read it before my child was born and I think I need to re-read it. Again there is an audio book read by the author if you prefer. I hope you don't mind these recommendations, but when I read your post I had a lot of empathy for both you and your daughter and really thought they might help. They all helped me.

The other thing I wanted to say, is that you are coping with a lot. It sounds like you may have quite a sensitive child and have limited support with them during the week. Is there anyway your DH could help you a tiny bit more during the week or any relative who could help? Could your DD go into nursery for a tiny bit longer so you have a bit of time to yourself (if you don't have enough time already)? I realise that these may not be possible and do anyway remember that this will pass, your DD will be older soon. Anyway, please be gentle to yourself and your DD.

A did a similar thing to my daughter this morning. My DS3 and DD4 were chasing each other, they went on to the stair which I told them not to. DD then pulled DSs ankle and he hurt his leg and started crying so I cuddled him. She they started crying super loud - said she had a headache. I explained crying wouldn't help and DS is hurt. She didn't stop so I told her to go cry in a different room as I was overwhelmed.
DS calmed down and DD came back after a few minutes still crying. I cuddled her then she was fine for a while but did lots of crying over little things in the next 30mins. She told me she felt jealous of DS being cuddled.

Look up good inside by Dr Beck and rupture and repair. When DD was calmly walking to school in the sun we spoke about what happened in the morning. I apologised for sending her away crying, told her I struggle to handle two crying children. Asked what she taught we could do differently next time. She explained she wanted the first cuddle and I explained DS was hurt and needed it.
Honestly Dr Becky is great, no one is the perfect parent but as long as you can discuss after, it's okay and will hopefully help in the future.

You just need to find a different approach as it sounds like it might be the way you are reacting or handling things that could be a cause of some of your daughter’s behaviour when she is with you.

I just want to say you’re not a bad mum at all, you know it was bad to shout and have asked for help on mumsnet for other mums so you’re stepping a foot in the right direction.

It can be exhausting to wonder why our young children cry when they’re with us or act up for no reason but not with others. It’s because you are there safe space and they are able to get all their emotions out to you when needed. That may or may not make things easier but sometimes perspective helps.

I agree with redirecting actions, if my 2 year old has a tantrum I will distract him or turn it into a funny game to make him laugh but if he hits or throws something I tell him why we don’t do that firmly (not shouting) and why it can hurt others. I don’t personally think going to a “thinking step” and counting to 20 is going to achieve anything.

Failing that if you are struggling you can definitely reach out to professionals to give you some guidance with your DD on tips that might help x

Just seen the post above mine has also recommended Dr Becky too 😂
She is great!

Its exhausting - not surprised you lost your rag, you're only human - unlike some of the perfect parents on here who never lose their cool.

@Neitherherenorthere1 I hear you, I am struggling with my 4 year old too, no advice but wanted to tell you that you are not alone xx

OP you are not a bad mother neither do you need to be disappointed in yourself.
You are doing so much, carrying the can of the family while working and studying FT, and on top of that one of your 3 children is badly behaved (and yes, she is badly behaved. She spits, she refuses, she jumps on furniture, she makes noise after being told nicely to be quiet). ANYONE would be taken to the edge by this. Apart from the sanctimonious MN who think children can't do wrong.
Be kind to yourself, get home from work today and plan something nice to do with the kids, a game or meal perhaps. If she starts, say 'use your words please' and leave the room. She's not 'crying', she's whinging. She does not sound genuinely distressed. You would know if she is in pain, unwell, or has a genuine need. Do not engage until she is talking normally.

Also, just to add to what I wrote above. We all mess up. I think what is important is that you apologise to your daughter and explain you love her so much.

It sounds like your daughter has picked up on your irritability and frustration with her and it’s affecting her attachment to you. At nursery and in-laws it sounds like she feels more secure snd so she behaves better? What ratio do you think your good, doting, loving interactions are vs your stern, improving, correcting actions are? I wondered if you had a week where you let go of the need to keep crafting her into a better behaved child and instead took every opportunity to fill her cup and make her feel really secure and loved if that might help improve your relationship so she’s less tearful/whingy. You can then introduce calm discipline but balanced with lots of affirmation that she’s deeply loved too.

Great reply. I have nothing more to add.

Nursery is exhausting. Being 3 years old can be overwhelming. Being a mum to a 3 year old is too. I find Being older with my second DD I have less automatic patience which certainly isn't fair on her. I also had a high stress time consuming job so was constantly on "rush rush" mode. I found that makes for stressed out kids who just want space to learn to do things for themselves. I was giving attention when I needed stuff done and when I was irritated more than when it was fun and positive.

Lots of cuddles, eye contact, come down to her level and talk quietly. seeing if she can explain what she's crying about with that. But don't accept screaming. She's old enough to have explained that screaming isn't OK.
My DD when 3 after a while would just sob "I'm so tired" when she started to work it out.
It's so tough being expected to have infinite patience. I can't say I do!

And if you are the only one she does it with then you are definitely her safe space- where she doesn't have to worry about performing and can just let it all out. If you think of that then cuddles come more easily.
Bad behaviour ilicits a reaction for you. Try paying more attention to good behaviour. Even little acts. Make a big deal so she knows she has your attention when she's good, not just when she's acting up.

OP you have my sympathy. It sounds like your 3 year old is showing some normal 3 year old behaviour (tantrums, crying, wanting own way) but a little to the extreme. The hitting, spitting etc and other behaviour sounds less normal, and it sounds like it's happening a lot and you're struggling to cope. Crying is really hard to cope with when it's constant.

I wouldn't usually jump straight in here, but she sounds like she could potentially have ND traits. the fact she is fine at nursery and with other people then loses it with you could be that she's trying so hard to conform and behave all day, then when with her "safe" person (you) she can let out her true feelings and let out her emotions. There are some great books on emotional regulation for little kids, talking about feelings etc and the behaviour will be a reflection of how she is feeling or some need that's not being met.

The fact you struggle with the crying to the point you're shouting shows that you're 1. Human but also 2. Overstimulated. ND runs in families - but either way, incessant crying can be absolutely overwhelming.

Get yourself some loop earplugs to lessen the impact of the crying and try some techniques to keep calm when you're with her.

Try googling approaches for ADHD children - there's loads of accounts on insta with really useful advice. My DC aren't diagnosed but have a lot of traits and I find these parenting techniques work better for mine (and probably still help with NT kids just different approaches)

Don't be too hard on yourself.

I agree that a child should never get what they want by tantrumming, and certainly not by hitting, but also that it sounds like you both could use some more fun and silliness together.

To us as adults, doing silly things as part of getting ready for the day or whatever feels inefficient, it would be faster to just do it sensibly. My two are currently puppies at bedtime, and I'm throwing imaginary balls to get them up to the bedroom, telling them to sit, etc. It would absolutely be faster if they just walked up – but playing puppies is much faster and nicer than dealing with a strop over it. I'm also working full time with a lot on, and the other advantage is that it squeezes in some fun together on busy days. We have very little time to play together after work and nursery, but a bit of nonsense during the evening routine we can manage.

Also coming to second Good Inside by Dr Becky. It also sounds like you’re having a really hard time and being a parent is really exhausting when we’re constantly running at max capacity.

I’ve been there and had similar experiences with my now dd9. However, me being angry and constantly seeing her behaviour as a problem rather than developmentally normal and a need for a better connection with me only widened the gap between us. Ultimately SSRI’s, therapy and a reevaluation of what I want my parenting to feel like for my children are the things that helped the most - that and Dr Becky - she offered a new model for handling hard behaviours and I feel better now in my parenting that I ever have before.

Try not to berate yourself, shame gets us nowhere, but take this moment as a sign that a different approach is needed. Apologise to your daughter, tell her you love her, and be forgiving with yourself.

As a SAHM wrangling a 3 year old, I feel your pain! I think almost every parent has snapped at some point and then felt awful about it so don’t panic. You’re a good parent because you’ve asked people for help/ideas as to how to improve things - you clearly care a lot.

Here are some things that have helped me. I’ve found changing my mindset helped these moments feel less intense and easier to handle.

• toddlers find these tantrum/big emotions incredibly stressful. It’s scary to them how much they feel/shout etc.. You need to try and show them that you are not scared/panicked by them too. Staying calm is the hardest thing but you need to try and stay neutral. They need to know you’ve got this (even if you’re screaming in your head!). You can tell them that they’re safe and you’re not going anywhere.
• when you give your DDs time outs, you should sit with them. Not to chat/reduce the impact of thinking time but to show them that you’re not going anywhere. Again, it’s showing them that big emotions don’t mean ‘losing’ you. This will help them grow up knowing they can express their emotions.
• toddlers will often ‘fall apart’ after nursery as they’ve followed rules all day. It’s normal, don’t take it personally. if you don’t already, get their fav snack and have it waiting on their seat as an incentive. If they won’t walk out of nursery, scoop them up and carry them. Don’t give them all the power! If they hit you, remember they have totally lost it and it’s not personal. Once they’re calm, then remind them about hitting.
• make sure you stick to your guns with boundaries. If you’ve said no, it’s an no from all (DH, ILs) Each time you give in, it ‘feeds’ the next tantrum. Communicate any red lines you need to. Consistency is key and your husband and in-laws have a role to play.
• during meltdowns, take your kid to a confined space and just be with them. Tell them they’re safe and you’re there. They might shout and scream a bit and then they’ll hug you. You’re modelling how to regulate emotions by not escalating. Save the chats about behaviour (you must not hit/bite etc) until they are totally calm.
• when they start to shout, whisper.
• Turn tasks into games at bedtime or introduce natural consequences (if you waste time doing x, we won’t have time for Y).
• make sure you’re getting some quality 1:1 time with both DDs. Maybe have a yes day for them.
• If you need to, tell you DD you need a moment to calm down and then come back to help her. You’re human, it’s okay to need a moment. Or tag in with you DH. Say you feel frustrated/cross and need a moment to calm down. Model that regulation for your DDS to see.

I also thinn sibling dynamics can be very challenging. Does you older daughter play with your LO? Sometimes toddlers are so desperate to play or have their older siblings’ attention, they use any means to get it. I’m not saying you should allow the behaviour but it might be worth looking at what happens just before these incidents - is your eldest getting your attention so jealousy is an element? Is your toddler trying to play with your eldest? Toddlers don’t necessarily know the difference between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ attention so a quick hit and then all eyes on them can become a habit. It’s also worth talking to your older daughter (you may have already!) and explain that the toddler is probably just trying to get her attention and doesn’t quite get how to do this. We've corrected behaviour like this by saying “hitting isn’t kind. If you want to play with X, you can say XYZ.” We don’t turn it into huge deal because hitting is a toddler phase that lots of kids go through.

So overall, I’d say focus on connection over fear (shouting/isolation). Your three year old is being a classic toddler but you also work full time - you must be knackered. Make sure you’re getting some time to recharge too. You’re human and clearly trying your best. Parenting is hard!

edit: adding that Dr Becky is amazing. Even just her social media clips are great (if you don’t have time to read the whole book!)

I think your right.

I came here to say this. My DD was the same.

OP, rather than giving her expectations that she perhaps sees as demands, streamline her morning.
Make it as low stimulant as possible. Make a chart for her wardrobe with pictures of sun/cold weather and the appropriate outfit.
Hang the two outfits on her wardrobe.

Add to the chart of pictures such as washing her face, brushing her teeth.

Then when she is dressed and ready she comes downstairs for breakfast.

Stay with her for the process. Stay calm. Praise her for staying calm and completing each step.

Make it fun, my DD hated brushing her teeth so we found a brush your teeth song, the ting tings great DJ! The verse and chorus fitted with brushing front teeth and back teeth.

Getting her out of the house was difficult, I used to sing instead of talking as it makes ot light and puts you in a better frame of mind too.

Read Joanna Faber’s How to Talk so Little Kids Will Listen, some excellent advice in there.

She shouted at her for crying, not for hitting.

I don't think your nephew is having a good time with you, ignoring him and preventing him from joining in is nasty. Your not meeting his emotional needs, I'm not surprised he is crying when he sees his mum, he's crying because he needs some emotional warmth from someone and he only does it when he sees his mum because he knows he won't get it from you. You should really reconsider your approach. If you were my child's aunt/uncle I wouldn't be leaving them with you, does she know your approach with him?

It's so hard OP. I have a 3yo and he's going through a a phase of lots of crying and lots of tantrums. It's hard to react in the right way all the time and you obviously know that shouting doesn't help.

It sounds like you are doing a lot which will make it harder for you to have patience and also hard for your DD because she has less of your attention.

It's hard to change patterns of behaviour when you are knackered but as the grown up you need to try and change the script between the two of you - you might find that in order to have the bandwidth to do that, you might need to lighten the load elsewhere. Good luck xx

https://themontessoriroom.com/blogs/montessori-tips/is-your-child-having-meltdowns-after-school-or-daycare-it-could-be-after-school-restraint-collapse?srsltid=AfmBOoo45ovH2mkk069z7As3GsovF5a_eT6um7fFAwL7k6OTqW1nlJBM

You are raising a child, so building her self esteem and confidence is really important. Not just an obedient robot.
Do you also shower her with love, cuddles, and praise her loads..?

I would focus on having a happy child, and forget these silly “punishments”. She is only tiny.
What does “spoiling “ mean anyway..? Raising someone who feels they deserve the world and can articulate their needs? Good for them.

Whilst I see Mumsnet is absolutely obsessed with the topic, not EVERYTHING needs to be related back to trans people. Christ on a bike.

Its bloomin hard- I have a 5 year old like this, just coming out of the worst of it, I think- it does get better.
Cut yourself some slack, sometimes things get on top of us and we shout- not great, but nobody is perfect..
BUT, I think other posters are right, kids can pick up on how exasperated we are making them feel and they begin to think they are too much for us. Connection and boundaries are the keys here,
The more I connect with my five year old they more her behaviour improves- so one on one time, hugs, asking her about her interests. When a tantrum starts- hold the boundary calmly, enforce consequences for bad behaviour and then immediately reconnect after- don't sulk or try and continue to punish the behaviour by your mood, that's done, reconnect by one of the above and move on.
It's hard but worth it. Xx