I've messed up with 3 year old

[Neitherherenorthere1]

I lost it this morning with my 3.5 year old DD.
I shouted at her really loudly when she came downstairs at 630 am to start crying in my presence.
I told her to go upstairs and cry. My husband walked in from the gym at that exact same moment and is angry at me for it.

For context she cries all the time over everything and nothing. She only does this with me. She is perfect in nursery and an angel with my in-laws ( admittedly they do spoil her and pamper her which I don't do. I discipline her).
I will collect her from nursery and they will tell me she's been perfect but the minute we leave the nursery she starts crying having a meltdown and refuses to walk to the car. Same thing for bath time, bed time literally anything I need her to do. Including her hair in the mornings, breakfast getting changed. Her dad leaves before nursery runs and returns near bedtime for work. I'm really struggling with the constant loud crying that is soo hard to stop. She also hits when she doesn't get her way and yesterday pushed me because she didn't like her hair? She caught me off guard and I nearly toppled as I was putting dishes away. She also hits my DD10 constantly, kicks, pulls hair punches when she's annoyed or doesn't like something.
My husband thinks I'm tough on her with the constant telling off and thinking step etc.
shes different to my other DD's she has meltdowns on everything and doesn't seem to improve from the naughty step or having no games/treats if she hits but nothing is working.
i partly think it's my in-laws who spoil her and don't pick her up on her tantrums or hitting and make excuses for her. If I tell her off at my in-laws for doing something like spitting, jumping on a chair which was upside down and hearing a crack I get told off by my in-laws for always being on her back in of her!
I can't cope with her crying for no reason and I snapped. I know I shouldn't have but her crying triggers me. I'm sure there's so much more information I could add but it sounds so defensive.

Im so disappointed with myself but I am
loud as a person and working in the profession I do I have no patience for spoilt kids crying including my own.
please be kind I know I can do better but I dnt know how to stop her with her behaviours and tantrums as nothing that was effective with my older two DD (with different grandparents!!) works here and I am losing my mind.

It's sounds like you might be both stuck in a cycle of behaviour. It can be very difficult to turn around , when the dc is crying/whatever abd you're constantly telling off. Try really hard to focus on the positives. Praise anything good. Understand that she is tired and cranky after nursery,and at an age where she is starting to try and find a bit of independence, and pushing back.

I totally understand you snapping, but try to model calm behaviour if you can. I remember being told not to tell dc to stop crying because they should be allowed to express their emotions. To me, it really depends what they're crying about.

You can hold firm boundaries and say no without constant disapline and shouting. 3 year olds learn a lot from watching their parents. If Mum is constantly shouting and unable to regulate her emotions, of course she isnt going to regulate her hers as you haven't taught her to. People on these threads always claim that gentle parenting is the problem. But genuine gentle parenting involves strict boundaries delivered respectfully. Shouty parents are generally lazy parents. If a DC is shouted at constantly, they will stop responding to requests thar aren't barked at them. And then they will struggle to break the cycle with their own children.

Lots of mum bashing on here!
I noticed @Neitherherenorthere1 you said your oldest D probably gave up trying to get your attention, no it’s just she has a different personality to your 3 year old.
There is some good advice posted. You need to change your strategy to one that works for you and your youngest. Do you have any part of the day with her that you can play and be silly? Do you ask her what she did at nursery? When she gets upset or hits her sister, she needs to know it’s ok to feel her emotions but there is better ways to express it, like talking about it and how she makes people sad if she hits them.

I am so over whelmed by the responses everyone has written. Thank-you so much.

Just to update on my husband - he does do his share of the childcare when possible, because of my commitments he has to leave early in the mornings before school runs I can leave the home in the evenings. He is very hands on for the most part but he is one who does make excuses when DD hits or breaks something, which undermines me.

i do think DD might have additional needs but I wouldn't say how - she has a photographic memory, gets fixated on things until they are done a certain way and will not move on from that until it is resolved her way, causing tantrums, especially as she doesn't communicate in that moment the than crying screaming. I do think she is masking maybe at nursery. Not at in-laws they just let her do what she wants all the time without consequences and they tell her mummy is tough on her in ear shot so she knows that if I tell her off for spitting hitting snatching she will just cry for her gran who will come scoop her away.
when I have uninterrupted time with my DD 3 she is such a different child.

of course I love and cuddle and show affection to my DD - she knows she is loved and we say it to each other so many times. We have a bed time routine where I sing to her and we cuddle and she tells me she loves me etc so it's not that I deprive her of anything. Maybe I could be more cuddly and playful but that's something I have to remind myself as it doesn't come naturally.

Yes we talk on the walk and journey back home, I bring her snacks we cuddle but like I mentioned earlier she just starts crying most days as soon as we leave nursery. She loves nursery though she looks forward to it and loves her friends and teachers and the teachers say the same.

Maybe this is me who didn't get to break the cycle as well as she thought she did.

It's hard to comment on your situation because we as parents, our children and our circumstances and all complex and unique. Noone is perfect, as long as your not shouting at your child consistently and prolonged then she'll be fine. You clearly care as it's weighing on your mind and you're asking for advice. Sometimes even 5 minutes of play at the start with them makes such a difference and stops you getting into that spiral or decline, where the children play up, then the parents gets stressed, then the children play up more etc etc.

Id gets some ear plugs to take the edge off the crying. Sometimes when I ask my child why she is crying she literally tells me she just wants a cuddle so I give her one. I also talk to them and it distracts them, even stupid stuff like "do you want to know what we're doing tomorrow? And she likes me just talking her through her daily routine 😂" although mine is nearly 3 so yours is a bit older, maybe that wouldn't work.

This will pass, continue to try your best. That is all you can do. You are only human.

It sounds like she has struggles with transitions too from what you've said.

It was me too. I promise I didn't mean it as a criticism. You've posted here so you clearly care. You can change. I would definitely recommend a parenting class as PPs have said or even some Instagram accounts directed at parenting. I've learnt loads from there.

I have a 3.5 year old. Crying can get a bit annoying by the end of the day but punishing for crying isn't going to help. She cries because she is having a hard time, you have to help her to find other ways to cope.

She isn't crying to piss you off. She doesn't want to be feeling like that anymore than you want her to be crying. It's not personal. She just doesn't know how to cope with the absolutely massive feelings that 3 year olds have about all kinds of minor things. It's developmentally normal. Rather than trying to stop the behaviour you don't like by punishing, try replacing it with a different behaviour that helps her to regulate herself.

We had an issue with throwing things when they felt angry, now we have a hug and some calm down breaths instead. Eventually it'll just be the breaths and he won't need me.

If an adult was crying, you wouldn't shout or send them off into the corner. You'd comfort them.

It sounds like you are having some difficulty with your own feelings when she crys. Modelling how to manage that without shouting or giving consequences/punishments out of annoyance or anger will also help her to behave as you would like her to.

You’ve got a lot on your plate OP, and your 3 year old is fighting for attention, whether it’s good or not so good. I used to say ‘sorry, I don’t speak whinge, let’s sit down and then you can use words and I will listen’ You sound as if you’ve reached the end of your tether, so maybe something in your life has to be dropped in favour of giving that time to your littlest child.

Look up Dr Martha, a clinical psychologist who has lots of free information on how to parent in a loving caring manner and to med children where they are. You recognise this isn’t working for either of you, so make a change. Parenting is tough, but naughty steps and telling her to go away aren’t the solution.

I think you're right. The crying triggers something dark in me. I guess I can link it to when we cried in childhood as children we were beaten black and blue so we stopped crying... just need to figure out how to stop it affecting me now

OP doesn't do a naughty step, it's a thinking step and DD's nursery has a thinking area children go to if they have hit or hurt someone intentionally. You can give consequences for unkind behaviour. 3 year olds do have the capacity to understand hitting and spitting is not ok. OP also doesn't believe I shouting and feels guilty for doing it hence why she is here asking for advice. Children often challenge their most trusted caregiver most. So her daughter is not responding to poor treatment from OP, OP is the person she feels safest with.

OP, ignore unhelpful comments like this. I have a 3 year old who goes through phases of extreme moaning and tantrums when she doesn't get what she wants. I got the book 'how to talk so little kids will listen' and it really helped.

Yes I need to actively make time for her.

I just want to say that maybe you didn't break the cycle as well as you hoped, but you're doing amazingly listening to all the different suggestions and taking on board what might work for you and DD. You clearly care a lot and are willing to put in the hard work on both yourself and your parenting to get it right for your children.

If she potentially has additional needs and is masking at nursery, is part of it just that she's functioning right at her limit (and so are you, with all you've got on)? If you can find little ways to make her life easier for her to cope with, that might help. Would it help to make things a bit simpler, a bit more repetitive for bit? Weekend trips to the (same) playpark, not big days out, and so on? Perhaps a conversation with nursery as well – a little extra support for her there might make a big difference.

Honestly this is really upsetting to read. If my young child came to me crying my response would be empathy, not annoyance. And this is from someone who is really stressed by my young child’s cries - but as the adult I understand she needs compassion as well as discipline and I can honestly say I’ve never shouted at my toddler. Absolutely I may use a stern or louder voice, but never shouting or screaming at her.

From what you’ve described you’re not showing your daughter much kindness, warmth or guidance. I think you need professional help/support with your parenting. If I were your husband I would also be angry with you, sounds like your daughter deserves a lot better treatment from you.

@Neitherherenorthere1 my comments are solely based on what you've written.

Perhaps your daughter cries when she is with you because it's not a nice time for her. If you are always angry, criticising, telling her off, she probably finds you a bit scary, certainly not fun.

Going to daycare and her grandparents where she can have fun and be a kid - she's happy. Makes sense. When you pick her up from daycare she knows what's coming - you're going to be angry with her for something, she just doesn't know what yet. You sound pressed for time yourself, so your tolerance for things not going to plan will be low.

It's a hard habit to break. Have a think about it. Just reflect on the last week or two. How often did she get in trouble? How often did you have fun together? Make yourself a resolution that you are not going to say No to her behaviours. She can't get No right. Instead, what can she get right? What will you be able to praise her for doing? Can you make some time to play with her and have fun with her.

It will take you a lot of effort to change how you react and it will take a lot of positives to rub out all the negatives to date. They say something like five positives to one negative comment when people are working, so kids are probably more.

At the moment it sounds like you need to add a lot more positives into her jar until they start to crowd out the negatives.

That doesn't mean you can't discipline or correct behaviours. But discipline ceases to work if that's status quo. Taking things away just teaches her not to bother caring about things, because when she does, they get used against her.

So keep discipline for when it's needed. For other times divert and give a behaviour you would like to see and that you can praise

It sounds like you're having a tough time, OP.

I agree that shouting and losing your temper isn't the way forward and you need to try to find alternative ways of addressing poor behaviour.

Giving your daughter a time out to help her think about what she's just done is fine though, and of course you are not unreasonable to refuse sweets before dinner or ice cream before bed. If the other people in your child's life aren't willing to enforce those kinds of boundaries then really you are forced into a choice between two binary options, neither of which are great.

Either you don't have those boundaries yourself and let your daughter have and do whatever she wants all the time. This is clearly not in her best interests or yours.

Or, you are forced to be the bad cop.

That's not fair on you.

You say your husband does his part, but does he really? If he's leaving for work before nursery drop off and getting home at bedtime, it sounds like he's doing very little. Spending so little time with his daughter and then undermining your attempts to manage her behaviour when he does see her sounds like Disney dadding to me. If he really can't find more time in his day to spend actively parenting his own child then the least he can do is support you and respect the boundaries that you have put in place when he does spend time with her.

I also think it's likely that she behaves badly when she's with you because she knows that you love her unconditionally and she doesn't have to mask when she's with you. If behaving well is such a huge effort for her the rest of the time, you're the only outlet she has. You're her safe space.

Ah @Neitherherenorthere1 I had one who cried until she was 4 unless part of her was touching part of me. It absolutely does your head in. Sitting on the stair didn't work for her either - too stubborn (can't think where she gets that from).

An occasional shout combined with unconditional love is fine. Firm boundaries are fine but they have to be agreed and shared with other carers. FWIW I wouldn't have tolerated jumping on furniture or other destructive behaviour either.

One word of warning though, our dd was perfect from about 4.5 to 15.5. She then developed anxiety and depression and with hindsight much of the early stuff was anxiety related. At 17 she was also diagnosed with ADHD and so many pennies fell into place. She agrees, however, that she had a good childhood and recovered due to love, firm boundaries and good parenting/childhood.

There may be more going on than you are aware of and she also has different genes from your other girls if she has a different father.

Maybe you're right. I do think that at times but majority of the time I don't. My husband told me the other day your a good mum she loves you (DD3) - I may not spend as much time with DD3 doing fun things in the week but that doesn't ok it self make me a rubbish parent. The 'no's are left to me because no one else tells DD no, even when hitting jumping on things. So what do I do? Stop telling her no to certain behaviours so she likes me?

just for clarity I don't shout at her all the time and every time she cries. Just this morning as I was fed up as she went to bed crying the same and woke up with the same high pitched cry and I snapped. It's not right but that's why I posted my post?

I agree, completely.

I wouldn't tolerate violence, but is she lashing out because she isn't getting what she needs from you?

I get being worn down by crying (and whining really gets my goat), but she's three; there's a tone to your OP that sounds different to a worn down parent, it sounds like dislike and lack of care. This may not be accurate at all, but if that's what your daughter I picking up too, she's probably after your attention an care.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. It sounds like it triggers something in you when she crys and then you get into a power struggle where you are having a battle. Really you are both on the same side, she wants to calm down and you want to help her.

Just recognising that it still affects you is a big deal. In my experience, the main way not to completely lose your mind with young children is to remember that they don't want to be doing what they are doing and they aren't enjoying it. No kid wants to cry or hit or kick. They just have such poor impulse control and coping skills that sometimes they can't stop themselves. They are having a horrible time. It's your job to teach them to cope rather than to just squash the behaviour but leave them with the difficult feelings.

When I had kids I thought I knew what sort of parent I'd be. But in the end, the way I did things just wasn't a good fit for one of my kids. It wasn't working well and I had to learn new skills and adapt. Especially if kids have additional needs, sometimes you need to be the flexible one and meet them where they are.

There are loads of good parenting tips on this thread. But, if your childhood is affecting the way you behave, talking therapy like CBT can help to change the way you feel and behave in these difficult moments. You don't need to go digging up all your childhood trauma if you dont want to, you just need practical ways of catching unhelpful thoughts and feelings before they become behaviours that affect your kids.

It's pretty normal for children this age to have tantrums and be very hard work at this age, I seriously wish people like you would stop this all the time, can you imagine being a first time parent and hearing that?

Op every behaviour is a communication, she might be tired, hungry, thirsty, underestimated, try and find out what she's missing and sort it.

Not at all. I do not dislike or not care about my DD. The tone has been understood completely wrong.