To think unless you are ugly you’ve no idea what it’s like

[Riverrunswild83]

It’s made my life so difficult.
I understand about being a nice person etc and I am, I think. I try to be kind. I have hobbies. I don’t think I’m super dull or boring.

But I am ugly.

I a regularly ignored, even more so now I’m 40, and I’ve had friends openly laugh at the idea of me wearing a certain thing or going to a certain event.
I frequently feel more and more that the world is not set up for ugly people. It has hampered relationships and friendships and I believe my job prospects. It’s amazing how attractive people have an automatic advantage - this isn’t bitterness, it is fact. People flock to what they see as attractive and value it. Sure, I have made a reasonable reputation but I have had to work much harder for it.

I really think being ugly has made my life at least twice as hard as if I were average or attractive - from not getting served quickly in places, to struggling to make friends. People always assume if you are ugly you are worthless and increasingly I am starting to feel like I am.

AIBU to think the world is just not set up for ugly people?

Your friends are not good people, I would not want friends like that. You need some better people in your life.

It is true that attractive people may have an easier time overall there has been research in to this area.

I'm sure you're not ugly, op 🥺

But unless you fit the thin beauty standard, yes, life will be harder for you

I've got weight to lose and I know that I get treated badly by people, especially men. I notice it when driving, men cutting in front of me or not letting me go past, etc

I could be projecting but I don't think I am really

Sending love, op xx

@Riverrunswild83 I truly don't believe you're ugly. You are shining that you're a nice person and that must show. I'm sorry you feel like this. True friends would never laugh at clothing/ social event choices etc. truly

You are not wrong. I've personally experienced both sides of the coin due to illness.

I try to approach it mentally with detached curiosity and don't let it affect how I think about myself.

At 40 I’m surprised you haven’t yet accepted this. And believe me, all the good looking people are getting a lot less attractive as they age. Or they’re still somewhat attractive, just older. The only thing we can do is work on our inner life. Cultivate a life of knowledge and external validation won’t matter.

Your friends should not be adding to your woes, in this manner. Anybody who says that what you are expressing is not true, is at best being naive. Unfortunately it has always been this way, so it is unlikely to change.

First thing you need to do is get rid of your friends as laughing at you over things is disgusting

I am broad shouldered, with a big nose and hate my teeth too. My hair is flat and I am curvy now I'm mid 40s. I have had men call me ugly in the street more than once, usually the sort you'd imagine. I thought a van driver was wolf whistling at me once and when I smiled he sneered at me and said "not you you moose" and I realised there was some blonde pretty person behind me.
I grew up with my mother telling me I was not as pretty as my younger sister.

I hate my face and broad shoulders, even when I was a size 8 I looked wide.

You are completely right OP. Doesn't matter how smart we might be or kind, with ladies if you're not good looking you may as well not exist.

You need new friends but I completely get where you are coming from with the rest.

I find it funny when conventionally attractive people give dating advice (for example). They live in a completely different world.

And you are correct - for women being unattractive makes life harder. People will gaslight to say that’s not true but I think it is.

Noone is ugly.
But I agree the world is easier for traditionally attractive people.
Have you tried a makeover, go and get a free makup session with Mac or similar and a new hairstyle? A hairstyle can make the world of difference to your confidence.
New style.
If you feel you are ugly then you can change your look. Don't accept others opinions. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Joe brand spring to mind, she is the opposite of traditionally pretty but her confidence and style is extremely attractive. She owns her look and clearly just goes for it.

This is a logic/pattern of thought also seen in incel forums.

Are you male or female, OP?

I think it's much more marked when we are younger. As we get older, nobody looks great I think, it levels the playing field.
I think you are blaming too many things on 'ugliness', and you are playing the victim a little. I think there are some things you can take control of.

I had a friend who was, objectively, pretty ugly. She was overweight, very sloping shoulders and had an odd shaped face. BUT - she was clever (this improved her appearance through having sparking eyes, wit, fun to be around and made people laugh etc etc), and was very proactive in managing her looks: Always impeccably groomed (very made up, nice and expensive clothes and accessories, very fragrant, she always smelled gorgeous, and clean shiny hair).
You would never have called her pretty, but her overall appearance became actually quite attractive, even though she herself was more on the ugly side, if that makes sense).

Money helped (she has a good job). But also, she held herself to higher grooming standards than better looking people if that makes sense (hair always blow dried, no leggings and trainers for her, always looking smarter, always wearing some level of makeup).

People are often very superficial and go on looks or how one dresses. It's very shallow and would be soul-destroying to feel that throughout one's life one is being judged in that way or overlooked because of it. In a way, because you have had to work harder and dig deeper in yourself you have grown more as a person and probably have strengths others do not have. Your behaviour and morals count for a lot more than looks.

I'm very plain. Yes, it's true although kind people try to tell me that I'm 'handsome' or 'scrub up well' there's no disguising the fact that I've got an enormous nose, that my teeth despite being healthy are discoloured and there are gaps, that my eyes are hooded and I have no chin. All my life I've been the 'plain friend' and overlooked as men headed for my (sometimes only marginally) better looking friends, companions and associates.

But now I'm over 60 and the playing field has levelled HUGELY. I'm physically fit and have kept a decent figure while many of my more gorgeous friends have gained a lot of weight over menopause. They are all now finding that wrinkles, reducing eyes, sagging chin etc can't be fought off forever. And it's now that all the character-building techniques that I taught myself over the years (charisma, being interesting, having hobbies etc) are paying off. I've never been in such demand!

Here come the comments of "I'm sure you're not ugly" and "no one is ugly" - it's patronising and dismissive of people who are ugly and know it.

Body positivity usually extends to weight, disability, stretch marks, scars and the like - I've always felt it doesn't go far enough to be more inclusive of people who are ugly in the movement. At least if you're large you stand a chance at losing weight, for some ugly people they may be able to get some cosmetic surgery but it's not quite so simple for them.

Step one is to get some new friends. There’s banter, and there’s making you feel bad about yourself. You don’t have to stick with people who make you feel awful.

I’m extremely plain, and have been since childhood, with two very pretty younger sisters who unfortunately look like the pretty version of me. I won’t lie, it was difficult when I was an insecure teenager, but it’s perfectly manageable in adulthood. It’s certainly never hampered me making and keeping friends. Yours sounds awful, OP. Why do you tolerate that behaviour from people who are supposed to like you?

Yes unfortunately, being 'ugly' is one of the worst crimes a woman can commit under patriarchy. Patriarchy does teach us that we are worthless if we're not fuckable enough. Most women will also go through the transition of being desirable Vs being seen as an ugly old hag as we age. It feels worse as a young woman.

But you don't owe the world prettiness. And there are things you can do to look more attractive if you want to, such as dressing well, grooming well, etc. It will level out as you age, when suddenly your personality and hobbies will become more important.

Also please get new friends as your current ones are trash.

But I agree, the world is very unkind to women who aren't attractive.

@PickyTits i think it’s the word ‘ugly’ that I have a problem with.

If standard beauty is a 10, then I count myself as 1 or a 2. Like others on this thread, I don’t fit the beauty mould at all. I am fat, v unsymmetrical features and a huge nose.

But I genuinely don’t think that any face is ‘ugly’. I have never been repulsed by another person’s face and I don’t think anyone has ever been repulsed by mine. So yes, I’m one of those people who say that no-one is ugly, but it’s not because I disagree with the sentiment: it’s that I don’t agree that the opposite of human beauty is ‘ugly’. I think ‘plain’ is a better word

I have found that confidence and style go a long way to overcome the effects of being less naturally good-looking. Lean in to whatever you think your ‘worst’ points are, rather than trying to hide them. Don’t be afraid to find bold colours and interestingly cut clothes.

I’m happy with my face committing crimes against patriarchy. Viewed this way, my face alone is an act of feminist protest.

Another vote for new friends! I'm possibly a 4 out of 10 on a good day but I've never really experienced what you describe from your friends. Definitely the world being harder though, I feel anything I say from certain people is ignored or ridiculed and I feel vulnerable and/or ignored. I haven't gone down the route of make up because I'd rather be 4 out of 10 without than try really hard to be 5 out of 10 and still look ugly.

I like to think of the thing from Roald Dahl
"A person who has good thoughts cannot ever be ugly. You can have a wonky nose and a crooked mouth and a double chin and stick-out teeth, but if you have good thoughts they will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you will always look lovely"

And I think it's true, good thoughts have got me a long way :) and for the people it doesn't work with, they're not worth bothering wih anyway 🤗

I doubt you're actually ugly op. I don't walk round and see ugly people....I see people who are at varying levels of attractiveness. Very very few people are stunningly beautiful. If you're not stunningly beautiful, it doesn't mean that you're ugly. My guess if you're like everyone else and totally average and your perception is skewed?

I think feeling that you are ugly can ruin your life in a way that is unconnected with what you actually look like.
There was a documentary series on people with facial differences (can’t remember the name) and since watching that I don’t think just not being pretty is that hard tbh.

You sound like you need new friends....what kind of a friend laughs at you?!
I bet if I saw you I'd see something I liked about you, not many people are truly ugly. And we're all human no matter what we look like and deserve to be treated as such!

Some of the most attractive people I know aren’t conventionally pretty or beautiful, but they have something about their personality that shines through.
My friend has the most incredible smile. She hates it because she’s quite naturally ‘gummy’ when she smiles or laughs, but she is radiant and her smile draws you in. She is stunning when she smiles.