To ask someone to explain the India / Pakistan situation please?

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/may/06/pakistan-india-attacks-kashmir-live-updates

I tend to keep an eye on the news but haven't seen any mainstream reporting recently about tensions between India and Pakistan getting to the point of military conflict.

I'm going to dig around a bit to try and get a better understanding but I know there are knowledgeable types on here who might have some insight, and I think it's worrying and feel very sorry for the inevitable civilian casualties.

Sorry I have nothing to post of use but I am also interested as I didn't see this coming at all.

Indeed, I know that historically there have been clashes between the two countries, but I've now read that it's a response to a terrorist attack. Most concerning that some commentators are saying it's the most intense attack for two decades, and they are both nuclear powers.

Am watching Agenda Free TV running a livestream at the moment on YouTube.

Terror attack? I need to google that... I do know PM of India is a Hindu nationalist who has stirred up interreligious conflict badly. A terror attack will be fuel to an already volatile situation.
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This is a heavily simplified explanation which I’m sure people with a better understanding than me can improve upon:

• Before British rule, there was no unified state/entity on the Indian subcontinent. It was instead home to a large number of small, self-governing states, with populations comprised of both Hindus and Muslims.

• Under British rule, these small states (the land that today makes up Pakistan, India and Bangladesh) were unified into ‘British India.’

• As British control weakened in the 1930s and 1940s, the Indian independence movement led by Gandhi and the Indian National Congress gathered pace. Many Muslims were concerned about the prospect of independence - because they feared that an independent India, which would have a Hindu majority, would therefore be Hindu-dominated.

• Consequently, tensions between Hindus and Muslims increased and an organisation called the Muslim League under Jinnah began advocating for an independent Muslim state.

• Britain, heavily weakened by WW2, just wanted a quick exit, and became convinced that partitioning British India into a Muslim state (Pakistan) and a Hindu state (India) was the best way to proceed. The partition was handled incredibly poorly, with millions of Hindus and Muslims finding themselves on the wrong side of haphazardly drawn borders with hours to go before the deadline. There was a lot of bloodshed.

• India did far better out of the Partition, receiving the lion’s share of good agricultural land, industry (e.g. major steelworks), financial resources and the state apparatus left behind by the British Raj. For example, India got 77% of the total landmass and 82% of the population of the undivided country, leaving Pakistan feeling dwarfed by comparison and geopolitically insecure - compounded by the Kashmir issue (see next point).

• Another key problem was the handling of the state of Kashmir, which was split between India and Pakistan though both felt they should have been allocated the entire territory. It has been a flashpoint of conflict ever since.

• Pakistan has been wracked by instability ever since its creation (due in large part to the circumstances of the partition), with repeated military coups. This instability has contributed to the prorogation of terrorist groups which have particularly targeted India. India blames the Pakistani government for all Islamist terrorist attacks on their territory - it’s difficult to say exactly how culpable the Pakistani government actually is (Are they actively funding and training militants or just turning a blind eye? We don’t really know).

• A few weeks ago, Islamist terrorists attacked Indian tourists in Kashmir, singling out the non-Muslim men and murdering them. As always, the Indian government has blamed the Pakistani government and clearly feels that the severity of the terrorist attack requires a militsry retaliation.

26 Indian tourists were killed in Kashmir by terrorists who asked them to recite the Koran and when they couldn't, shot them before their wives and children.

Unclear how this can be blamed on the Indian PM, given Pakistan;s long track record of sheltering terrorists, but I am sure people will find a way.

it’s difficult to say exactly how culpable the Pakistani government actually is (Are they actively funding and training militants or just turning a blind eye? We don’t really know).

I mean, the US State Department, Brookings ( an independent institutution), the UK, among others, have all agreed that Pakistan is funding terrorists, but apparently no one knows for sure.🙄

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/pakistan-and-terror-the-eye-of-the-storm/

This was way before PM Modi ever came to power.

Thanks all, that helps, I was just a bit shocked when I checked the headlines and saw it had all been kicking off for a couple of hours, with very little in the way of media attention / analysis over the last few days to predict it.

I hope it settles down soon, for the sake of the residents, and because we could do without yet another hot-spot for conflict ramping up given the state of the world at the moment.

And please God that I don't believe in, let Trump keep his mouth shut on this one....

Trump has said "it's a shame" and Hegseth has offered support to India, while China has offered support to Pakistan.

Oh.... well as long as he doesn't say anything else.....

As that article notes, Pakistani citizens are the biggest victims of terrorist groups in Pakistan, indicating the complexity of the situation.

My wording above should have been clearer - the Pakistani government does of course fund and support terrorist groups to further their anti-India agenda in Afghanistan. If Afghanistan was to fall to the influence of pro-Indian elements, Pakistan would be near-surrounded by India, their mortal enemy, and paranoia about that existential possibility has led Pakistan to take drastic (and clearly morally wrong) actions over the last few decades.

I meant more that India’s claims that Pakistan directly sponsors terrorist attacks in India, like the one a few weeks ago, are unproven - at least, the Indian government has not provided definitive evidence of this.

@MadeleineAllbright thanks, that was useful.

Very surreal watching a live cam of the border area in Poonch in India controlled Kashmir. The landscape is mountainous and quite beautiful from this angle. The sound of fighting and explosions is intense. It's just coming up to 6am India time, and it was briefly peaceful at sunrise but has since escalated again. Some local people are watching from a rooftop, and birds are singing, you can hear traffic, what sounds like a bell, and perhaps radio music. Also possibly a call to prayer. Normal day, except for the gunfire and artillery....

Exactly! And Bin Laden was living very comfortably in Pakistan under the eye of the Pakistani military but how can we tell if Pakistan actively funds and trains militants.

There is absolutely considerable evidence that Pakistan sponsored the 2008 attacks in Mumbai at the Taj. It's not unproven, unless you think the Pakistani government is blissfully unaware of the terrorist groups. The US just extradited a Pakistani terrorist to India, so that he can stand trial for the 2008 attacks.

All this pussyfooting around Islamic terrorism is not going to end well for the UK.
Right wing Hindu nationalism is terrible, but it's not the biggest threat.

Hold on, you're in for a long ride here op

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It looks like you are aware of the historical situation between India and Pakistan and tensions over Kashmir etc so I will go straight to the recent events. A few weeks ago there was a terrrorist attack in the India controlled part of Kashmir where 26 people were killed.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025/4/23/act-of-war-what-happened-in-kashmir-attack-that-killed-26-tourists

Whilst there have been previous skirmishes in the past, they have been attacks on security forces, but this recent attack was against civilians which led to outrage in India and deteriorating relationship between India and Pakistan with retaliatory actions like expelling diplomats etc and as far as India threatening to cancel a treaty that allows both India and Pakistan to share access to a river which is a crucial water source, Pakistan has said such action to prevent them accessing the water will be seen as a declaration of war.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/24/world/asia/india-pakistan-indus-waters-treaty.html

Anyway Pakistan denies any involvement in the attacks, but Pakistan is also known to have funded terrorist attacks in the past so India doesn’t believe that Pakistan wasn’t involved and vowed to respond which they did today with the strikes which they claim are against terrorist assets but Pakistan claims civilians were also killed though they haven’t shown proof yet but it’s still early.

In return Pakistan has also vowed revenge, we don’t know what they are planning to do but there was some recent breaking news that they shot down 2 Indian jets and taken pilots hostage (to be confirmed). This is strange because India’s strikes were with missiles from India not dropped by planes so it is not clear how Pakistan was able to down 2 Indian jets but Pakistan did shoot down an Indian jet back in 2019 after a dog fight, captured the pilot and paraded him so I guess its feasible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/south-asia/india-pakistan-attack-kashmir-operation-sindoor-updates-b2746042.html

Hopefully things will calm down after a few strikes with both sides trying to sell it as victory but the risk is both countries have nuclear weapons so escalation is a big concern. I don’t see it getting to that point but I think relations will continue to deteriorate even after the strikes stop creating conditions for future escalation at the tiniest provocation.

Part of the issue is that Indian Kashmir has a Muslim majority (at least in the Kashmir valley) but the Hindu rulers chose to join India. There's been internal conflict in Indian Kashmir for decades and the Modi government has been particularly brutal in how it's cracked down, including turning the state of Jammu & Kashmir into two new union territories with less political autonomy.

The international conflict between Pakistan and India flares up into actual fighting periodically.

This Al Jazeera report very conveniently omits that the male tourists were asked to recite the Koran first. They were targeted on the basis of religion. Confirmed not just in the Indian press, but by the BBC.

I don't know why this is not been properly reported. But I can guess.

I don't know why anyone trusts Al Jazeera....

You’re right that it seems to be a religious attack and many media reports didn’t cover that fact. the first I heard of it was an interview with an Indian diplomat.

I don’t know how true but he claimed that in addition to asking them to recite the Koran and they were also asked to prove if they were circumcised or not before shooting them.

Edit: Pakistan is now claiming that they have shot down 5 Indian jets and taken soldiers and pilots hostage, sounds suspicious to me. I will wait until it is verified.

Love him or hate him he actually plays a huge role here and Rubio has been involved. Trump has a good relationship with Modi which should hopefully help smooth things over.

This has been all over Sky news for the past two weeks. So much so that Sky's interviews and coverage has been discussed at top government levels in many different countries. The White House answered questions on Sky's coverage last week.

Sad to see this as I hoped things would calm down and it was all words. Even though watching over the past few weeks it's been obvious that the tension between the two countries has been tense to say the least.

Yes, I find Pakistan’s claims dubious.