To ask someone to explain the India / Pakistan situation please?

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/may/06/pakistan-india-attacks-kashmir-live-updates

I tend to keep an eye on the news but haven't seen any mainstream reporting recently about tensions between India and Pakistan getting to the point of military conflict.

I'm going to dig around a bit to try and get a better understanding but I know there are knowledgeable types on here who might have some insight, and I think it's worrying and feel very sorry for the inevitable civilian casualties.

No. But Modi portrays himself as a modern democratic leader.

This whole thing is Deja vu in every way. Depressing.

Good job we’ve got those careful and thoughtful pacifists in Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Pakistan to calm things down then. 🙄

I do wonder at what goes through some people’s heads sometimes. Sponsoring, training and sheltering terrorists is not a matter any other state can ignore. When the terrorists murder people the sponsoring state is responsible for what follows.

I am going to urge anyone on this thread to ignore the diversions and actually look at the long list of Islamic terrorist attacks across India for the past 25 years, years before the BJP took power. Do not be distracted by the " right wing government" tropes. Terrorist attacks happened when Dr Manmohan Singh- possibly the gentlest world leader alive- was in power too.

Grok:

Determining which news outlet—Times of India, NDTV, Indian Express, or The Hindu—is "fair" depends on how we define fairness, typically understood as impartiality, factual accuracy, and balanced reporting. No outlet is entirely free from bias, as editorial choices, ownership, and audience expectations shape coverage. Below, I’ll compare these outlets based on their reputation, ownership, ideological leanings, and credibility, drawing on available information and critical analysis.
Overview of Each Outlet

1. Times of India (TOI):
2. Ownership: Part of Bennett, Coleman & Co., a major media conglomerate with diverse business interests.
3. Reputation: TOI is India’s largest-selling English daily, known for broad readership and extensive coverage of politics, business, and entertainment. However, it’s often criticized for sensationalism, prioritizing Bollywood and cricket, and publishing paid content ("advertorials") that blurs journalistic lines.
4. Ideological Lean: Generally centrist but leans toward establishment narratives, aligning with government or corporate interests due to its commercial focus. Some accuse it of soft-pedaling criticism of powerful entities.
5. Credibility: A 2019 Reuters report cited TOI as widely used (46% offline, 40% online) and among India’s trusted legacy brands, but its credibility is undermined by sensational headlines and occasional lapses in editorial rigor.

NDTV:

• Ownership: Founded by Prannoy and Radhika Roy, it was acquired by the Adani Group in 2022, raising concerns about editorial independence given Adani’s ties to the BJP government.
• Reputation: Known for pioneering 24x7 news in India, NDTV has a strong digital presence and is praised for in-depth reporting. However, post-Adani acquisition, resignations of prominent journalists like Ravish Kumar suggest shifts in editorial freedom.
• Ideological Lean: Historically left-leaning, critical of right-wing policies, but its current stance is murkier due to ownership changes. Some X posts claim it’s lost credibility, aligning with BJP interests, though this lacks conclusive evidence.

Indian Express:

• Ownership: Owned by the Indian Express Group, led by Viveck Goenka, with a history of independent journalism since 1932.
• Reputation: Respected for investigative journalism, comprehensive economics coverage, and its “Explained” section, which simplifies complex issues. It’s seen as more accessible than The Hindu, especially for UPSC aspirants.

Ideological Lean: Perceived as left-center but relatively neutral compared to others. It critiques government policies while aiming for balance, though some X users accuse it of selective reporting.

• Credibility: Rated among trusted legacy brands by Reuters (2019). Its simpler language and focus on factual reporting enhance reliability, though sourcing issues occasionally affect credibility.

You don't need to follow Indian news media if you are so bothered. You can read the Guardian report on the Pakistan government's links with terrorism I shared upthread. Or indeed any one of a dozen reports by Western think tanks and intelligence. David Cameron himself in 2011, for one, way before the BJP took over.

The Hindu:

• Ownership: Published by The Hindu Group, family-owned, with a reputation for editorial independence despite regional (South India) focus.
• Reputation: Known for high journalistic standards, in-depth editorials, and comprehensive coverage, especially on international and policy issues. It’s a top choice for UPSC aspirants but criticized for dense language and limited non-South state coverage.

Ideological Lean: Left-center, with some accusing it of pro-left or anti-BJP bias. X posts claim it pushes “anti-India” narratives, but these are often unverified and reflect polarized sentiment rather than evidence.

• Credibility: Frequently cited as India’s most impartial outlet, with mostly factual reporting per media bias analyses. Its readership grew by 4.61 million (2020), surpassing TOI in some metrics, reflecting trust in its verified journalism.

Comparative Analysis
Factual Accuracy: The Hindu and Indian Express generally score higher for factual reporting due to rigorous editorial processes. TOI’s sensationalism and NDTV’s post-2022 ownership shifts raise concerns about selective framing, though both remain influential. Reuters (2019) lists all four as trusted, with NDTV and TOI leading in usage, but The Hindu’s consistent growth suggests stronger reader trust in its accuracy.
· Balance and Impartiality: No outlet is fully impartial. The Hindu and Indian Express strive for balance but lean left-center, occasionally critiquing government policies more sharply than TOI, which aligns with establishment views. NDTV’s historical left-lean is complicated by its new ownership, potentially tilting it toward pro-BJP narratives. X posts highlight polarized views, with The Hindu facing “leftist” accusations and TOI criticized for lacking moral rigor.
· Ownership Influence: TOI’s corporate ownership and NDTV’s Adani takeover suggest potential conflicts of interest, especially when covering business or government. The Hindu and Indian Express, with family-owned structures, face less direct corporate pressure but aren’t immune to regional or ideological biases.
· Sensationalism vs. Substance: TOI is the most sensationalist, prioritizing entertainment over policy depth, while The Hindu and Indian Express focus on substantive issues. NDTV balances TV-style urgency with digital depth but risks over-emphasizing social media trends.

Public Perception: X posts reflect divided sentiment. The Hindu is praised for impartiality but slammed as “leftist” by some; Indian Express is seen as a balanced alternative; TOI is criticized for lacking depth; NDTV’s credibility is questioned post-Adani. These views are inconclusive without broader evidenc

Good god, 😂the word vomit.

How about BBC documentory on Gujarath and recent incidents coverage on Manipur? What about Pulwama lapses? Why nobody has resigned?

That is where Modi is being criticised ?

Also please read how Manmohan singh tackled those attacks in 2008

"What did the Manmohan Singh Govt do after the 26/11 Mumbai Attacks?"
This is a question which several Bhakts are asking on Twitter as they rejoice in their jingoism marred with fake news peddled in the Godi Media.
Well here is what the Manmohan Singh Govt actually did.....

• Right during the attack the NSG was deployed
• Not a single of those terrorists were spared
• All of them were dug out of their holes, trapped and killed
• Ajmal Kasab was arrested and sent to trial
• A clear link of his terrorist activities was established which was used to isolate Pakistan internationally and push them in a corner.
• He was then hanged
• No, he was not given Biryani feasts, that was a lie which has by now been busted.
• Each and every of those terrorists were killed
• The Govt took responsibility of the lapse of security
• The CM of Maharashtra resigned
• The HM of Maharashtra resigned
• The Union Minister of Home Affairs resigned
• The Govt held itself accountable to the people of India

What Manmohan Singh Govt did not do:

• It did not go into a muscle flexing hypernationalist mode
• It did not invite Pakistan to come on our soil and do a joint investigation of the terrorist attack
• It did not let any of the terrorists escape and then used the Media to focus on internal communal hatemongering
• It did not target the entire community of Indian Muslims for something that they had no hand in
• It did not make war claims against Pakistan and put the entire Nation in a crazed bloodthirsty mode.
• It did not go into a jingoistic frenzy leading the nation into what can end up in a nuclear catastrophe.

Do you know why they didn't go all "War Crazy" because they have actually fought wars.....they know the price the nation has to pay to go into war and the devastation that happens and the the way a war sets back a nation by decades. Many of you have not even witnessed a war, much less been affected by it. Neither have I. But let me tell you this......an actual war is nothing like PUBG. You don't get respawned in a different location to fight again and again till you are bored and then switch off your console. People actually die Soldiers die Innocents who have not signed up for a war die. Homes are destroyed. Livelihoods are destroyed. It is easy for a pot bellied unkil to sit in his living room and shout "Bharat Mata Ki Jai" while sipping on his chilled Gau Mutra and demanding "War War War". But before you do that, take a pause, talk to the Army Wives who have lost their husbands, talk to the Mothers who have lost their sons. They will all tell you that they were proud of their family members losing their lives to defend the country.....but ask them if they want a war or if war is a solution and most of them will give you a straight "NO". It is easy for people like you, who have never been near a contested border to "enjoy" a war on the media. But if ever a bomb shell drops near your house, you will crap in your pants. Disclaimer: Meanwhile all the attacks by us on Islamabad, Karachi made by the Godi Media last night stand cancelled. If you are done with phase 1 of your jingoism you can now go back to your offices and discuss this war with enthusiasm during your lunch hours or at home, safely, if the evenings with your wives.

Bringing terrorists to the courts is one way, and I don't entirely disagree with all you have said about Dr Singh's sensible handling of matters. But 16 years later, several terrorists responsible for the Mumbai attacks are still free, and Pakistan has only escalated its support for terrorists and lost control if its borders.

Interesting how it's ok if the US strikes in Pakistan to eliminate Osama but not if India strikes to remove the terrorists behind Daniel Pearl's murder, as likely confirmed by Asra Nomani of the WSJ yesterday. Again Asra is a British Pakistani who is not in the pay of Modi.

Islamic extremism should make you nervous ffs.

You are completely ignorant.

It is a verifiable fact Modi has stopped making Pakistan a talking point in recent years and largely ignored its existence. India has shown PHENOMENAL restraint in its dealings with Pakistan in recent times.

Pakistan has time and time again violated ceasefire agreements. Has Modi retaliated? No. Modi has focused on economic development, building international partnerships etc.

Where was Bin Laden found? Oh yeah Pakistan. A mile away from a military base no less. Why did the Americans not inform Pakistan of their Bin Laden operation? Oh yeah, cause they knew it would be leaked to him.

Pakistan harbours terrorists. Pakistan sponsors terrorist attacks in India. india has done its level best to ignore Pakistan.

But enough is enough. You can’t keep killing Indians on Indian soil and expect no consequences.

The West is going to have to choose between two evils: the lesser evil of Modi/ Hindutva and the far greater menace of Islamic terrorism. Hint: MI5 is devoting 75% of its resources to one of these. The other has a 7% annual growth in GDP and is poised to be the world's third largest economy, so hardly as obsessed with Pakistan as the Western media seems to think.

Anything else is obfuscation.

Din't you read about the source? Bhakths turn into racists by mentioning typos and grammar right ?

My Dear Brave and Valiant WhatsApp Unkils and Aunties.....
It has been heard through credible sources that our local Nagpur wing is recruiting "Deshbhakts" to go to Pakistan.....
Lahore Via Kuwait
The plan is to reach Islamabad by tomorrow morning and fly the patriotic flag right on the top of their Parliament.
Media reports had suggested last night that we have already destroyed Karachi and Lahore but in the morning those were handed back (by deleting those tweets) because.....you know why???
Because they wanted you to capture it and feel glorious.
So all of you brave Unkils and Aunties who are destroying Pakistan's Army and capturing their cities on an hourly basis, in your WhatsApp groups....the time has come.
Join the Santra Brigade and head towards Islamabad and fly that flag high.
No no, not our tricolour.....our saffron one ofcourse, since it took them 50 years of independence before they started flying out tricolour in their HQ.
So what are you waiting for?
Join them now !!!!!!
Oh and yeah Aunties you have to go too.....otherwise who will cook food for the Unkils? Your place will still be in the kitchen, don't worry.

Disclaimer: The credible sources mentioned in this post are my drunk sources who are right now swimming across the Arabian sea to make a sneak attack on the wine shop at Karachi harbour......if anyone wants original Fruit Biscuits from actual Karachi instead of an Indian Karachi Bakery in Hyderabad plij 2 let me know

@MadeleineAllbright thank you for your posts .Very clear ,and I found them more helpful than the BBC podcast I've just listened to
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct7zy7

It seems to me ,perhaps incorrectly,that the BBC have held off reporting about this until after the UK India trade deal .

I expect there will be many of the media asking why India doesn't give up Kashmir, but no one asking why the UK did not give up Northern Ireland.
Short answer: no one wants terrorists on their borders.

@MadeleineAllbright you have ignored India's economy building efforts after partition. Just being rather dismissive " Oh India got more in the divide". It has hauled itself out of extreme poverty, exports IT and several other services to the world, set up a space programme, slashed its birthrate, educated a large proportion of its women, conducted mostly free and fair elections. It is the fourth largest economy in the world, thanks to incredible effort. This isn't propaganda. It's fact.

Meanwhile Pakistan has given itself over to the army and Islamic terrorism.

But who can tell if all the terrorists living inside Pakistan are sponsored by the state? It's a mystery wrapped in a conundrum wrapped in an enigma.

@JaneFondue I think rather than a dismissive "Oh India got more in the divide" they actually said
India did far better out of the Partition, receiving the lion’s share of good agricultural land, industry (e.g. major steelworks), financial resources and the state apparatus left behind by the British Raj. For example, India got 77% of the total landmass and 82% of the population of the undivided country, leaving Pakistan feeling dwarfed by comparison and geopolitically insecure - compounded by the Kashmir issue

India got 82% of the population and land because most of India is Hindu and Pakistan refused to allow non Muslims to stay in Pakistan. 🤨And then it had to feed that population! Is it people's argument that the land mass should have been divided equally?

If Pakistan felt that insecure perhaps they should have focused on their economy and extricating themselves from their army. Building industry and education.They have had 60 years to do it. They haven't. Pathetic analysis.

When my husband worked in Abu Dhabi he worked with an Indian and Pakistani colleagues. They had banter between them until it was India v Pakistan cricket, then they hated each other, wasn't banter it was pure hate. As soon as cricket was over they were fine.
I asked one of them and he said their respective countries have been rivals for years, but are peace loving, which I believe.

I hope this is resolved quickly