New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

No. Single sex spaces should be made available. but mixing of the sexes should not be discouraged. Can't stand it when the religious-right try to impose their views on everyone else- whether it's the Christian Right, the Muslim Right (as here), or the Believers-in-Zeus Right.

I don’t see the issue with giving people options for more single sex spaces. Sounds great and nobody will be forced to use them.

Are you all right?

As your comment is deranged, frankly.

Where are you thinking of?

Eh?

It worries me. Might be gyms just now but how long before it's school classes. Girls will be taught home economics and boys science and engineering. So this will naturally extend into the workplace.

Also just noticed that Maheen Kamran got 1,357 votes out of a total of 3,585 cast - and with an electorate of 11,882 that's a turnout of a pitiful 30.30%

With numbers like that I'd be ashamed to pretend to be any kind of representative

https://council.lancashire.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?XXR=0&ID=2254&RPID=0

I mean where do you want those options to be?

Which types of spaces

The thing is, while I agree with you on principle, I won’t disagree with this (very) young woman(just because she’s Muslim) until an actual policy /ideology is made available. Are we talking about things that already exist and have heavily been fought for , with women being arrested, ending up in court, losing their jobs etc. or are we talking about a path to full segregation? Do you know? Because I don’t.

Also, ironically, back in the olden days of “be kind” and “it’s just a toilet/changing room what’s the big deal” women of other faiths (and victims of sexual violence) and their inability to access services were often the only argument (rightly or wrongly)that would quiet down critics or make them think twice or gain some traction. They were used in every single argument about single sex spaces. .It didn’t work for long , but they were the last “bastion” in a way.It’s fascinating how now they’ve become themselves the slippery slope.

yep, this is UK not Afghanistan. Absurdity

That’s not quite how it works. To get to that level you’d need a so inclined government and DfE . The odds of a predominantly muslim(and a radical one at that) government are so slim, they’re negligible. Then it would follow changes in policies, curriculum etc. One(or 10, or even 50) , lone 18 yo councillor can’t change much even in their own constituency, much less at country/government level.

You’re more likely to end up with a far right government, which would have equally bad outcomes for women and loss of rights , but there seems to be an appetite for that atm.

To be clear, my stance isn't anti Muslim. It's anti-segregation and anti any religious agenda that puts any sort of emphasis on modesty.
And to answer a PP, a far-right government is absolutely a potential path to Gilead. Not keen on that either.

And when I say 'modesty' it's because I'm opposed to any form of control over a woman's body and behaviour.

I’m not the councillor. I don’t “want” anything but she mentioned having single sex spaces such as gyms. I don’t see the issue. My mom used to go to Curves when it existed and was the only gym she felt comfortable using.

I just don’t see the issue with single sex spaces - it’s not like it’s alien. I went to a girls’ school and would not have wanted to attend a mixed school.

Gender critical feminists call for the upholding of the law which says women should have private spaces away from men.

Not public ones - big difference.

The newly elected Councillor is wrong on this, and her views dangerous.

Interesting that her parents sent her to a Catholic school.

No, we are anti-MALES accessing female spaces. That they are trans or non-trans is beside the point.

You really, really don't get it. We're anti the loss of female only spaces. 'Trans' has nothing to do with it. You are coming across as very ignorant and ill-informed, as well as misogynistic. Not wanting males exposing their penises to us in safe female only spaces does not equate to being anti 'trans'.

YABU and ignorant and very offensive, please educate yourself.

@Krakinou

I think a woman-only shop wouldn’t have any particular benefit for women and segregation of women and men for no reason is massively damaging - the end goal is that we are equal contributors to society rather than living in 2 parallel worlds.

Surely it depends on what you are selling. I've never come across a male working in a bra shop (I don't shop at M and S).

Yes I agree. I find the support for the councillor’s views dangerous.

She mentioned Muslims? If Muslims are so uncomfortable mixing, let them set up men and women only spaces. There are already plenty of female only gyms, and a lot of swimming pools offer female only sessions with female lifeguards. Maybe the Muslim community could look into this, and set up libraries etc and have women on Mondays Men on Tuesdays and so on. I don't think it should be forced on the rest of us. I'm getting on a bit now and have wobbly bits, I only go to women only swimming, but I'd never expect anyone to build separate facilities or anything!!

Just popping back to this thread to ask (again) do we know this is true?

I had a thorough search online and found no evidence that her "manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women", nor that she "wants to stop free mixing between men and women". Her published manifesto and campaign materials are all about normal, local issues.

The original quote appears to be from PoliticsHome. Here's the whole thing:

“There’s a big aspect of free mixing,” she said. “Muslim women aren’t really comfortable with being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms, where Muslim women don't have to sacrifice their health.”

The question from the journalist and conversational context are not included.

Maybe she really is an Islamic extremist in our midst. Or maybe she's just a not very media savvy 18 year old.

I agree @Flustration
The OP seems to have exaggerated this for reasons that aren’t much to do with the idea of sex segregating leisure facilities too.

I am Muslim and don't feel comfortable with this and I'm sure there are a lot of Muslims who would feel the same. Why should we go and change the fabric of society to suit our needs. We need to integrate more and not cause separation or division anywhere.
This councillor is causing even more division in a time where there is so much islamaphobia as it is.
If someone wanted to open their own private women only spaces they should go ahead but I don't feel tax payers should pay for this.

Interestingly, there's a letter in today's Guardian from a 68 year old women on her experience of happily using men's toilets:

Regarding the debate about who can use which toilets (Barclays to bar trans women from using its female bathrooms, 30 April), it’s worth recounting some of my experiences as they’re probably the experiences of many of your female readers. I’m 68 years old and have used male toilets so many times that I’ve lost count. This has always been because the queues for the women’s in cinemas, pubs etc have been so long that I’ve gone into the men’s with a big smile, asking loudly if anyone minds me coming in before I pee myself.

Sometimes I’ve been actively welcomed in, and I have never had a bad experience. I’ve then gone into a cubicle – except for one time at a theatre when the cubicles were all busy and I had to squat backwards over the urinals. No one was bothered. This was during a Sound of Music singalong event where most people were in fancy dress and it was hard to tell who was male and who was female.

The toilets at a local school I visit are gender neutral and are designed in such a way as to feel safe. There are always solutions to such issues if people are willing to listen to each other respectfully and carefully.^^

Rather than having more single sex-spaces (as this councillor is advertising), should we actually be doing away with single-sex spaces and moving towards gender neutral in all areas (even toilets and changing rooms)?

Gaza is a genocide, do I oppose Israel and stand with Palestine/Gaza. Most definitely. The mixing in free spaces is just ridiculous. She is in UK, we mix here. If Muslim women don’t want to, that’s their prerogative. The rest of us will carry on mixing. End of.