New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

This is a divisive subject and people may shy away from honest opinions due to being labelled racist.

But no, we shouldn’t start doing that.

No

I think people should be able to buy/set up a segregated gym or restaurant, say, if they think there’s a market for it but that no-one should be able to enforce segregation in anyone else’s gym
or restaurant.

I would feel very uncomfortable with Muslim only or Christian only spaces though

Public spaces should not ever be segregated. Giving women who require a segregated space for privacy reasons, for example, using a gym or swimming a man-free "time slot", for example Monday afternoon and early Saturday morning, is fair enough.

I would be absolutely against segregated spaces outwith privacy or safety concerns - for example women only supermarket sessions, nope.

That’s a good point @angelinawasrobbed

DD has a dream of opening a women’s only gym.

Most people on MN want single sex spaces only if it’s for anti-trans reasons but not if it’s for religious reasons

It's not an easy one, is it? Lots of women would probably like more single sex spaces such as gyms, but very few of us want our choices taken away.

Too little info in this snapshot for me to know whether she is a gender critical feminist or the Taliban-in-exile.

Maybe we should put it to a vote in that local area?

Oh.

I’m not sure that feels necessary to me. Obviously there are women’s gyms and other single sex spaces which should be single sex only, thanks to recent sc decision.

I’m also not sure what that would look like in practice. Woman’s hour at the library sounds quite nice possibly with optional support/ signposting for woman who are struggling, your not allowed to attend this work event due to your sex not so much.

We already do have these things to some extent: women only sections of gyms, women only swim sessions, exercise classes, my local community centre runs several activity groups which it indicates are for women. I don’t have any objection in principle with some extension of those things, where run by the local authority: women are particularly underrepresented when it comes to e.g. gym membership and participation in sports, and it’s often in part due to concerns about exercising around men or reluctance to enter male dominated spaces to do it - and as a result, women’s health and fitness suffers.

It depends.
If it is a gym, for instance, will it mean that the women a hived off to a cramped room with a couple of 1kg pink dumbbells and some skipping ropes, or will they have equal separate facilities or equal times to use the gym without men being there?

There are women only gyms already, just not council run ones.

Let’s segregate the sexes. Then decide that women should be at home. Then decide women cannot leave that home without a man. Then decide they cannot be educated. Then decide they should not speak.

Going great in Afghanistan.

There is a women’s only gym near me and it’s extremely successful. The difference is because it’s there as a choice, not being forced on people if that makes sense. It’s nice for women who want that option to have it, but it should be a case of “you’re a woman so you have to go”.

I really like bodybuilding gyms because the equipment is really good but I also use the women’s one for the social side and because it’s aesthetically pleasing

Should we be moving to a position where council facilities like gyms, libraries and theatres are single sex spaces or offer single sex sessions?

Presumably this would be supported by those who want such spaces for religious reasons but also by people who oppose trans women accessing women's spaces.

YABU to describe advocating for single sex space as “anti-trans” activism. To use such a label completely misses the point. The women who wish access to public spaces to be determined on the basis of biological sex not gender have no agenda against the existence of trans people. Or do you think the Supreme Court judges are “anti-trans”?

As for this new councillor, if a majority of her constituents want to segregate men and women for religious reasons, why not take steps to facilitate this? As long as it doesn’t remove opportunities for mixed sex activities for those who do want them, can’t see the harm. We’ve had women-only swimming sessions for decades.

Exactly. It sounds like the thin end of a very concerning wedge. Look at how Iran and Lebanon were once too, if you don’t believe how quickly things can change, particularly for women.

No it’s ridiculous. I’m not against single sex spaces where necessary eg long stay hospital wards and domestic violence shelters but these are pretty limited, I’m actually in favour of fully enclosed toilets and changing rooms that aren’t segregated as it solves so many issues (including men with young daughters for instance). Places where you are fully clothed including gyms, swimming etc have no reason to be single sex. The idea that men can’t cope with seeing the body of a clothed woman is simply bizarre and absurd

No they don't. They don't want men pretending to be women in spaces like changing rooms s which have quite reasonably been designated such for the privacy, dignity and safety of biological females.

Segregation of the sexes in areas where there is no need for it to happen is a completely different issue. Segregation because of a cultural or religious belief being imposed on people who are not of that cultural or religious belief is also a different issue.

Stop conflating different issues.

Women want single sex accommodation where they’re vulnerable, in a state of undress or where they’re having intimate treatment. Other than that we need life to be men and women socialising and working together. This councillor’s dark age regressive worldview has no place in modern Britain. But it just shows how she has enough support to be elected and we should be very wary of the pernicious misogynistic side of conservative religious communities.

@HotCrossBunplease

Ime as someone without a strong view on the trans debate, it is not helped by very extreme views on both sides.

Many 'women's rights' activists oppose trans people having any rights at all. There was a thread on here the other day about banning trans people from a changing room with individual cubicles. I cannot see how that is a safety issue in any conceivable way.

Equally, many trans activists campaign in a very polarising and divisive way by trying to shut down all discussion.

What do you think @SeaSwim5 I assume you’ll want to add your spin to the editorial you’re writing.

If you are neutral why did you describe them as “anti-trans” then?