New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

No we shouldn’t. Because one woman (what’s her age got to do with it?) is happy to see men’s penises and flash her own undercarriage doesn’t mean the rest of us are.

To end "free mixing of men and women in public spaces" absolutely not.
We live in Britain not Saudi Arabia!
There is a women's only gym in my town and I don't have an issue with that. But spaces like this should be for (biological) women and not restricted based on religion

I have used men's toilets at a variety of events over the years. Nobody has ever objected. However, that doesn't mean I want men in women's toilets. Does that make me a hypocrite? Quite probably, but the reality is women are at much higher risk from men than men are from women. I risk assess before I use the men's and would always ask is it ok before entering (yes I know, rude but post-menopause the pelvic floor muscles aren't what they used to be and queuing could be problematic). I can't do the same for a man entering the women's. Plus there is usually a queue for the women's so we really don't need extra people in the queue.

I did tell the security guard I identified as male at a recent concert when the queue for the women's was insane but he laughed at me and told me he wasn't letting me use the men's. That was ridiculous as it was an outdoor gig and it was two lines of portaloos.

I do think the woman in the letter squatting over the urinal was very rude if there were men in there. She was basically flashing them, which is unacceptable regardless of sex. But then, I'm only 60 so maybe I'm too young to understand.

The thing about free mixing isn't about not being in the same area as the opposite sex. But there's the restriction with talking to members of the opposite sex who are unrelated to you.

Being in a mall or public space where there are men and women is fine.

I think there's also a restriction on being alone one and one with an unrelated member of the opposite sex.

Mixing your politics Gaza no mixing

The fact females aren't harassed in mens toilets debunks the theory that transwomen are under threat being there.

So thanks for that.

And no, evidence shows women and girls are at increased risk in general neutral spaces.

And women seek out the communal space to give us support. Somewhere to flee from men. Women miscarry in public toilets and other women come to our rescue. Cry there. Commiserate. It is a VERY NECESSARY space for women.

I ask why you are so desperately determined to remove these spaces? Why?

@OchonAgusOchonOh

Presumably the men in the men's toilet would be as much of a risk as men in the women's toilet though?

What the woman is arguing is that she has used men's toilets for 68 years for no issue. Therefore, should we be doing away with gendered spaces altogether?

So because she is ok, that means RAPE SURVIVORS like me, and DV survivors/victims should be ok, too? And what about little girls, and girls just starting their periods? Do you ever actually stop to think your arguments through, before typing them? Or are you as I suspect, simply a trans activist pretending to be 'reasonable' to goad with bad faith arguments?

I know exactly what she's arguing and it's nonsense. If I choose to take the risk of using the men's, that's on me. It is not up to anyone else to decide to put all women at risk by allowing men in to the women's.

And I disagree that the men in the men's are a similar risk. Any man who has such disregard for women's fears that he will use the women's is likely to be a higher risk than one who doesn't.

@OchonAgusOchonOh

There wouldn't be separate men's and women's spaces if the letter writer had her way.

Could we have a situation where by default all toilets and changing rooms are gender neutral, but there is one cubicle on each site (not necessarily conveniently) accessible for those who want a single sex space?

Another ‘interestingly’ example of one woman deciding because she’s ok with using men’s spaces so that must surely mean it’s ok for everyone. Looks around faux wide eyed..

Interestingly, did this consent can’t be given away on behalf of others concept not sink in when you used your example of the woman goalie being all for trans women playing women’s football?

Could we have a situation where by default all toilets and changing rooms are gender neutral

Um, we've said NO!! How many times do you need to be told? Single sex spaces are VITAL for women and girls. By default, they must be single sex. Have or two cubicles for gender neutral - maximum. But the default must always, ALWAYS be single sex. Do you understand that now?

@FlakyCritic

Clearly there are different views on the subject. Gender critical activists and the councillor discussed on this thread clearly think that single sex spaces are essential.

Trans activists and some others think either that trans people should be allowed access to spaces of the gender they identify as, or that these should be gender neutral.

FWIW, I think the easiest solution is to move to a position where all spaces are gender neutral, inclusive and accessible to all. There can then be limited provision for single sex facilities for those who want them.

E.g. a shopping centre could have one cubicle solely for women, accessible by contacting staff for a key.

So you agree with mixed sex prisons, hospital wards, rape crisis centres and refuges?

You're not getting it! It's not about the "cubicle". It's about the communal facility. The space. Again, considering gender neutral spaces are so (provably, with actual statistics) dangerous to women and girls, all spaces MUST, by default, be single sex.

One or two cubicles can be for gender neutral. But the actual facility and space must remain single sex for womens safety, privacy and dignity. Gender neutral is NOT...AN....OPTION. It is too dangerous. Women need the "communal" space with other women around us, for safety. We've said no. Poll after poll after poll shows females want female only spaces to remain. Gender neutral supporters are in an (ever decreasing) minority.

The easiest and cheapest solution is to not tear down womens hard fought sex-based spaces. To keep single sex spaces as we women are in the majority. Let the tiny minority who need a cubicle have one and get access to a key.

Throw one or two cubicles for them. That's it. But single communal space must remain for the HEALTH AND SAFETY of women and girls. We've said NO. Conversation over.

@SeaSwim5 im a bit confused though. If TW are in danger in mens soaces, how will making all spaces mixed sex help that?

Why should women, 51% of the population, have the minority provision? Single sex spaces, with options available for those (a tiny minority) who are uncomfortable with that.

This is hardly an issue. Muslim woman wants more spaces for Muslim women. In Burnley. Talk about stating the bleedin' obvious.

Exactly! Why should a minority turf women out of our spaces, when they should create their own? It's a spiteful, malevolent and vindictive suggestion by trans activists desperate to gleefully punish feminists. You do not take away the rights of the majority for a tiny minority. It's the other way around.

.

That's a stupid idea, given that most women want single sex spaces.

Just provide an additional unisex space for anyone who isn't comfortable in the single sex spaces for their own sex.

"Unisex changing rooms put women in danger
Our investigation shows single-sex facilities are far safer"

The Times: (small excerpt)

"Unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities, research by The Sunday Times shows. Almost 90% of reported sexual assaults, harassment and voyeurism in swimming pool and sports-centre changing rooms happen in unisex facilities, which make up less than half the total.
Gender-neutral changing is growing as councils seek to cut staff costs and cater to transgender people. But one MP said it risked becoming a “magnet” for sex offenders and increased the danger to women and girls.
At least two-thirds of all sex incidents in public pools and leisure centres, whether inside or in the grounds, happen in unisex changing areas. Only a handful occur in single-sex changing rooms, the figures, released under freedom of information (FoI) laws, show."

https://archive.md/q7pDp#selection-2513.0-2527.186

Creating a few neutral apices while retaining single sex provision takes nobody’s rights, but otherwise, yes. It’s obvious.

No matter what religion, it’s 2025 sorry but we can’t go backwards on this. There is no God telling us not to mix, or what to wear. It’s man made insecurities. Fine having women only gyms etc, toilets whatever but that’s where it ends. Oh and I hate reform. I’m not racist, just when it comes to religion it doesn’t belong in our society. Practice whatever you wish in privacy, but don’t bring it into our Society. It has no place. Thanks

The last two posts are just hilarious. Yeah it’s good to hear other peoples opinions but is anyone actually changing their mind reading these posts? I don’t think so.