New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

Single sex spaces are single sex for a reason because woman are in a state of undress and / or are vulnerable. Religious women are equally protected by the equality act. There’s absolutely nothing (thanks to the Supreme Court) stopping people from setting up single sex groups.

I think if you don’t want to be around men full stop then that is a preference surely and you’d live your life accordingly.

I would rather not be involved with neighbours who park inconsiderately, make noise, fail to clean up after their dog so I live in the middle of nowhere, I don’t know if that’s a reasonable comparison though tbf.

Can’t wait until all these “independent” councillors and MPs link up and create one party nationwide.

Then the fun and games will really begin!

No woman's rights activists advocate trans people having no rights at all. That is a lie.

Trans activists however by there stance are literally denying the right of biological women to even exist.

I think it’s important that this is a policy suggestion coming from someone who is a Muslim and has been elected in an area that has a high % of Muslims. This suggestion is about her religion and talks about what would be a fundamental change to British cultural norms. I’m prepared to give benefit of the doubt if she defines what she means by public spaces. I am all for women only swimming and gym sessions for example but I would not want this to creep into public areas such as libraries, shops, parks.

I am very unhappy about the number of individuals, the majority of whom have a Muslim background, standing on supporting Gaza and clearly with policies that are based on religious beliefs that are not inline with the freedoms our country is based on. I hope someone somewhere in power is watching this as there is potential, for individuals whose beliefs and wants are frankly a threat to our freedoms, to get elected in ever growing numbers and I don’t want that.

Fundamentalist who want men in every space with women
or
Fundamentalist who want no men in any space with women.

Or the current UK system :

Of recognising that some spaces need to be or should be able to be single sex spaces and that means
• no men of any type in the womens spaces
• no women of any type in the mens spaces

Who knows which system works best?

The UK courts appear to have opted to recognise the importance of a balance of rights to meet whole community needs.

So when the two type of fundamentalist 🤪 meet in court they both end up being very sad when the court says you both are wrong🤷‍♀️

I thought single sex spaces needed to be a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim.

Most spaces don't have a legitimate reason to be segregated by sex.

@HotCrossBunplease

Because rightly or wrongly they are anti trans rights.

@1apenny2apenny

Why is a library any different from a swimming pool?

Hmmmmm, maybe you don't gym much. In most gyms there is a contingent of repulsive men who openly letch and make women a uncomfortable. They can also bully and hog equipment. And of course the lovely mansplaining about how it should all be done.

There is certainly a role for women only sessions for those women who can't be arsed with the shit and just want to train in peace.
Other women are more than happy to do mixed sessions, fight their corner and tell the fuckers to piss off , although they shouldnt have to. I fall into the latter camp, but it's just so bloody tedious.

Enforced segregation is a different matter entirely.

The councillor concerned is very young and may not have considered that male only areas e.g. golf clubs, private members clubs have been traditionally used as networking spaces effectively excluding women from power. I suspect she'll find herself on a steep learning curve.

They are against trans people having very specific rights to use single sex spaces. They are not against trans people existing or having any rights at all. That is what “anti-trans” means. Your shorthand is inflammatory.

People don't tend to get undressed, wear very revealing outfits and do exercise in a library.

This isn't rocket science.

As a muslim, i must add that not all muslim women want the same things. Some may want this, some may not.
If there is a need for it and it is popular, then why not go for it.
There are alot of non muslim women as well as muslim women who feel uncomfortable with going to the gym with the opposite sex. So it might be helpful to them.
As long as there are options for mixed as well as non mixed, i have no problem with.
It is nice to be given a choice especially if it’s something like exercise. Which helps with health.
It may have more people coming through the doors.

i think to straight away go to “Taliban” from just this is how mumsnet always goes. Then along comes the Muslim bashing as already seen on this thread.
Which is sad as there should be space for debates for critical thinking and improving/ enhancing lifestyles without the “them and us” as it always comes across on here .

Don’t think “the public” should be Funding religion-based or cultural need for separate facilities for a select group of people.

Prefer instead that groups learn how to live in UK without breaking laws or putting people at risk.

Solve the problem … which is the people’s behaviors, not building facilities.

@noblegiraffe

I'm not clear why single sex sessions are essential for swimming pools but not libraries or theatres.

Presumably swimmers will get undressed in the changing rooms rather than the pool itself.

It is for religious reasons that the councillor is suggesting it.

I disagree with it as it is eroding our inclusive society and sense of community.
Having said that, I have been to single sex gyms when I lived in the middle east and I can't deny it was a better experience , so clean, no sweaty men grunting, so although I dont agree with segregation, I do agree with single sex gyms 😂

Why did you miss out the bit about wearing revealing outfits and doing exercise?

This is how it starts. I'm all for women only spaces which women might feel more comfortable using because they would prioritise our needs over possibly aggressive and over assertive men, but to keep the sexes separate is not what we should be heading towards.

And yet again, this is why people are voting reform. We are not an Islamic country and should absolutely be rejecting anything that comes from that sphere if it encroaches upon public life or space. Religion is between the individual and their worship space. Ignore this at our peril.

Since i wrote my last post, i see some people have actually written similar. So it is nice to see.

I also would like to say that many places do actually offer women only sessions and these are great for women who want/need them.
i personally do not use them as i do not have a need to but it is nice for those who do.

That's might be the crap way of life in Afghanistan

But that's not all Muslim women. In fact, Islam says women can vote before UK gave women the right to vote,
muslim women have the right to own property, study, and education and a womens money that she earns is her money but a Muslim man's money is her and his money.

It sounds fine in theory.
But then a woman might feel emotionally blackmailed only to go to these woman only spaces. Then it might creep towards men only and women only spaces. And women would lose out if career choices get made in the men only spaces.
We've moved away from apartheid, we've built up women's rights.
It's the creep towards the unknown that scares me - not the initial idea. So I say no way.

“Revealing outfit” (whatever definition of that is) is not required in a gym. Gym goers can cover up if they want.

Why would a woman be upset with what others are wearing … it’s none of her business.

Don't see why not. I'd quite like to go to the gym without the Functional Fitness blokes charging through it with their music at ear bleeding levels, dangling off the chest press and lat pulldown machine and other blokes happening to stand and wait at the machines directly behind and imo, way too close to, the younger women using anything that works the glutes. Sometimes there will be a much larger built bloke come along to suggest that they go and do something else, but it would be much more pleasant without them - as it was at my previous gym where I could be minding my own business in the pool only to have some male grab at me when swimming, make a point of having his very visible genitalia directly at face level or just leaping into the pool over women swimming until they introduced female only sessions.

I disagree with segregation of public areas based on sex. I also have left a sports type club because they had a separate session for woman only. Im not in favour of this type of keeping woman away from men