To feel if they say no that I may as well bloody well give up on working? And that women are still having to make the compromise?

[AnwI]

I’ve just been offered a great job. I have a DD who is starting school in September. There is an after school class that is until 5pm. However, for me to get there in time to collect her I would need to leave the office at 4pm. I’ve asked the recruiter to ask this and she’s waiting for a reply.

This job comes with a massive pay rise, it’s a good career move and since becoming a single parent when dd was 3 I’ve done everything I can to keep going. Ex does his bit financially but does absolutely nothing in the week…I’ve tried many times to ask him to change work pattern etc but he says he can’t (or won’t).

I am going to feel absolutely deflated and resentful if this company does not agree to this. I know it’s not the company’s job to ensure my dd is looked after etc etc (im familiar with these points!) but the entire office industry is set up for working men who came home to housewives running the home. I am trying my best here and yet I feel it’s all stacked against me…I absolutely hate that I’ve had to even ask it at all as I wish I could just work as late as I wanted in whichever location I wanted.

I am going to be so crushed if they don’t agree to it.

Lol at “get a childminder”. There are no childminders with vacancies that pick up from my DS’s school. I have no choice but to limit my work hours because I have to do school runs and as a lone parent I have no one to split it with. My adult DS looks after his brother so I can pick up two evenings a week at work but he’s not dad and he has his own life, I can’t rely on him for huge amounts of childcare regularly. Imagine the CF Mumsnet thread that could generate.

I would be really really pissed at your ex, I would let him know. From now on you're going to make his life difficult, that means zero concessions, no favours and he's dealing with a difficult c-unt woman. His behaviour has consequences.

@Gustavo77, are you suggesting that OP does not work until her DC is 15? Or are you suggesting that she takes some "little job for a bit of pin money" or whatever they call it, until OP's DC is 15?

If I had followed that suggestion, I would have lost my PIN/professional registration and then have to undertake the return to practice course (in 3-4yrs time when my youngest turns 15). Not to mention me losing a massive chunk of NI and pension contributions! Who do you think would/should pay to support me/my DC during this time? I don't have a magic money tree in my garden (even if I did, I would have gone to PT hours whilst my kids were young and then FT once they were older), and why should the State pay for me/DC when I am healthy/fit and capable of work? Even if I had carried on in a lower banding (i.e. gone from being a registered nurse to a care assistant), the shifts would have been the same, but my earning potential screwed....and I still would have lost my PIN and would have to redo an RTP course.

Yes, my DC are my absolute priority, but so is me paying to keep a roof over their heads and for their day to day upkeep! Me working also teaches my DC that it is important to work and have the means to provide for yourself. It shows them that it is possible to study and progress in a chosen role.

You are not wrong to think this. That work is set up to favour families where there is a stay at home parent or zero children. Combine that with the fact that childcare is unbelievably expensive and you have a no win situation for a lot of people, men included, who want the involvement your DD's Dad is not prepared to invest.

A good employer will take this into account and allow flexibility around the edges, regardless of the Equality Act (where childcare is not necessary something they have to take into consideration).

I asked my employer of 2 years if I could leave 20 minutes early one day a week in order to get to after-school club before it shut and they said no. Pushed me over the edge into breakdown, it was just the last straw.

To be fair the problem with this is that OP has no power there, and these men know this. He can’t be forced to see his child, he can’t be forced to be a parent, he can’t be made to do anything at all other than pay child maintenance. How complicated can you make life for a man who actually has no interest in being a dad and is already paying what he has to?

You are batting every suggestion back which makes me wonder whether you have actually looked into alternatives properly of whether you are just sticking with leaving at 4pm. And elsewhere you say thd job requires flexibility into thd evening but how is that going to work in practice, if you don’t have support/backup?

Honestly, don’t know if this is a solution for you, but it worked for me when I was a single parent overseas with zero support and lots of children.
I moved them to a private city Centre School very close to my office, we all got the bus together in and we all got the bus together out. I was financially no better off for a number of years, but it did elevate my position in my CV accordingly.
And of course the children got a very nice education too
I’d rather spend the money on that then part-time nannies and adhoc childcare arrangements

Well, I wouldn't give up on working, but I do get your frustration.

It's a fair request, you've been entirely up front, and TBH, if they reject it because they're worried about you, then it was probably a rubbish place to work anyway.

When I took my current job, I was open that I have to do the school runs (my kids see their dad twice a month - no overnights)and that this was non-negotiable, but that in return I'd start work earlier (international company, so this is desirable), and obviously I would be generally available (senior position, also expected). It's been fine, everyone is happy with me.

That's irrelevant. Stop looking for someone else to blame. It is not for companies whether they are small or large, male or female led to ensure you can parent your child.

Companies will continue to be run by men if women can't even manage their own time let alone a company's.

Did you apply and interview for the job going all the way to offer stage before asking this question? It is to be hoped that they can work to your hours because if they can't you've just cost you and, more importantly, them an awful lot of time and money.

OP, I get it - I think most parents get hit in the face a bit by the way that wraparound childcare isn’t ‘set up to work’ in any way. It’s frustrating and even more so when you don’t have a partner (or ex) willing to take on their share.

BUT I think this has to be faced, just like the vast majority of working parents do, especially in professional roles. As others have said, in an established role where you are known and valued, the offer of finishing at 4pm and making up an hour later in the evening might well fly. Especially if they operate a core hours model. But when you are an unknown quantity and they have no idea whether or not you would meaningfully make up the extra hours, if would put you at serious disadvantage to other candidates.

Several things to consider:

• Have you asked around about local childminders, other mum’s willing to lift share etc ? That childminders are full for other people on this thread is totally meaningless. Have you checked Koru kids or with local universities or FT colleges (nursing or midwifery or other caring/ DBS professions can be a win.
• Au pairs are a thing, I have one. It’s expensive and a pita but at a certain point you need to invest in back up if you have no other backup (I have no helpful family for 300 miles+)
• Is another nearer school possible or one with later wraparound? Ours is till 6.30

Bottom line is that if you want the well paid professional role then childcare is a work expense and it’s best to just accept that and think about what works best

I’m not sure my DH would have finishing at 4pm approved at his work (senior professional role like the OP). He does do it, as do I but it’s an ever changing balance of what’s in the diary and what the need is. My boss has no issue with me leaving at 4pm if I’m not missing anything big but if I left halfway through a Board Committee he would be unhappy.

We both do these kinds of jobs FT and commute into London, we use wraparound care 7.30-6pm. It’s hard!

This. You are coming across as completely inflexible with a this is the business' fault and they need to solve it for me. There are solutions out there, it isn't a unique situation. That alone will put employers off. They need employees who can deal with and solve problems. Be careful you don't sabotage this job before you start.

@Twilightstarbrightand that’s with two of you. But according to all these posters if you got divorced your ex would definitely step up and do exactly what you needed him to do for the good of your career, which no longer concerns him.

A childminder takes child from school to their home often giving dinner you collect from them. Many children do this from a lot younger. You maybe eligible for financial help.

That's because some women have children with selfish twats. I understand it's difficult, I've raised 3 DC myself and worked throughout that time without a break. However the father of my children has never considered that caring for them was solely my responsibility.

I don't deny it's an issue, but I don't think its necessarily up to the employer to solve the problem if they need their staff to work specific hours. If the OPs ex would step up then it wouldn't be such a problem for her.

I don't deny it's an issue, but I don't think its necessarily up to the employer to solve the problem if they need their staff to work specific hours.

OP says the job can be done flexibly, wfh in the evening etc.

For jobs that can be done this way, employers making it easier for employees to do so (ie stating in the job ad, mentioning at interview) would make things so much easier. Wouldn't it be nice for OP to be in a position where she didn't need to ask, but that she could go into the application process stating "I can work 40hrs / week and evenings as necessary with notice. My core hours will be 9-4pm and then I will do 7-9pm [or whatever]"

Why can't you just get a childminder. But ask by all means.

Yes

Thanks for all the posts, I still have a few pages to read. All posts are appreciated!

I am quite surprised at the attitude of some posters, probably not to be unexpected given the situation I am in in the first place.

To answer a few questions… no ex wasn’t like this when we were together but obviously when you are separated the dynamic changes. I’m not excusing his lack of practical care for dd but highlighting that blaming me for my choice in man as to why I am unable to progress at work is absurd.

There was a poster talking about other people wanting flexibility and where does it end. I don’t understand this view point. My post is about the fact that this company could easily accommodate a 4pm finish and I am able to work flexibility. Of course some jobs are impossible to make that work. Large companies are however at the heart of the patriarchy as they are built upon it. I’m genuinely quite shocked that so many posters don’t see this… but I suppose that’s how the patriarchy maintains its grip, it hides in plain sight.

People telling me to move house and so on like it’s the most simple thing. I’m a single parent and can’t just up sticks like that.

From a philosophical perspective it’s interesting that all I am trying to do is a good job furthering the human race yet in doing so the world works in such a way to try and make it as difficult as possible. That’s not a ‘woe is me’ comment… I just find it sad that so many people (women included!) think that’s ok. I know it’s not and will always stand up for women, especially those simply wanting jobs that men have historically held.

Ps still haven’t heard back 😅

I see / experience the problems in organisations, the unfairness for mothers and the ‘presenteeism’ silliness. It’s really hard to get and keep a good job as a mum with a deadbeat dad ex. It sounds like you have a good prospect to do so with this job.

But I don’t think focusing / reflecting on all that will help you. In your shoes my priority would be getting and making a good start in the job, mostly on their terms then hoping for more flexibility later - or if not a stronger CV to move elsewhere with more flexibility. In the short term seeking childcare to 6pm would help you. In the longer term a house move might, as this challenge will continue.

My DC were in childcare to 6pm Monday to Thursday during primary, it wasn’t ideal but financial stability has been good.

I agree with you OP. Women have been trained to put other women down. It’s the patriarchy at its finest.

You employer has a huge role to play in fixing this, and can do it quite easily without any negative impact on their bottom line. They just choose not to.

Yes, why make life so difficult?

Move through school and yourself closer to work.

Mine neither. I'm so great full for the massive flexibility my workplace offers that give the work I do absolutely everything. I am also flexible in the opposite direction and when on occasion I need to work a bit more in the evenings I do it.

All the women I know who have flex at work are pretty loyal to their jobs as they value it so much.

Fingers crossed OP I hope you get the flex you're after.