To feel if they say no that I may as well bloody well give up on working? And that women are still having to make the compromise?

[AnwI]

I’ve just been offered a great job. I have a DD who is starting school in September. There is an after school class that is until 5pm. However, for me to get there in time to collect her I would need to leave the office at 4pm. I’ve asked the recruiter to ask this and she’s waiting for a reply.

This job comes with a massive pay rise, it’s a good career move and since becoming a single parent when dd was 3 I’ve done everything I can to keep going. Ex does his bit financially but does absolutely nothing in the week…I’ve tried many times to ask him to change work pattern etc but he says he can’t (or won’t).

I am going to feel absolutely deflated and resentful if this company does not agree to this. I know it’s not the company’s job to ensure my dd is looked after etc etc (im familiar with these points!) but the entire office industry is set up for working men who came home to housewives running the home. I am trying my best here and yet I feel it’s all stacked against me…I absolutely hate that I’ve had to even ask it at all as I wish I could just work as late as I wanted in whichever location I wanted.

I am going to be so crushed if they don’t agree to it.

You can make it work if you get alternative childcare. Try Koru kids or another after school childcare service. Yes it’s unfair but if you want to progress and get the pay rise you’d be mad to turn it down for this reason.

I say this as someone who is forced to earn half my potential salary as I’d otherwise routinely finish at 7-8pm each night. I don’t want to do it myself but almost all women in my profession who want/need to have found a way to manage it with the right childcare.

I accept all that you say there.

Madness that people seem to think requesting this kind of thing is an affront. It's absolutely the norm in senior roles to make requests around flexibility etc at offer stage – it's a negotiation! If the company isn't willing or able to offer what OP needs, that's fine – they can find someone else for the role. It all depends on what's more important to them and honestly, I'd be surprised if that one hour in the office is essential in that kind of role.

At that level, flexibility is expected of you – you are expected to be available in the evenings / at weekends, and it's perfectly reasonable to ask the same back. The last job I was offered I negotiated two afternoons off a week plus a 9.15 start so I could drop DD off at school. All accepted without a murmur.

I'm a manager and I would definitely agree to this. I want the best people for the job and will work with them to make their hours work. My company would fully support me with this, fingers crossed 🤞.

I don't actually know much about this I'm afraid.

I think the start point is an assumption of 50/50 care so people must be choosing different set ups for many reasons.

I don't know if women push for the weekday/EOW end set up because they want it and cant bear the thought of being apart much, or actually that's the best option for thier child in thier view, having spent some time seeing how thier now ex parents. Or whether eow is all the ex is prepared to offer even if mum thinks more would be better.

I know a lot of domestic abuse only starts after a baby is born so some women will be wanting to limit time. (This was my sisters scenario)

And for those who suggest having a discussion about how childcare would work before having kids. Yeah, I had that discussion. XH and I were planning on each working FT, set days/nights around each other’s shifts to facilitate us both working, childcare etc. Things were planned and agreed with both our workplaces (before I started mat leave) to enable this happening once I finished mat leave. Then, just under a month before youngest was born, XH sustained a life-changing head injury due to an RTA. Then things went down the pan completely, and he descended into alcohol and drug dependency (and in/out of rehab), hence the unreliability. Things are never black and white.

The experiences I’ve had, and the fact that I’ve been able to move up in my career, has enabled me to be more vocal about trying to promote flexible working (even in a profession like mine). It just seems nuts to potentially lose a cohort of workers because of issues with finding suitable childcare. Sometimes, it does just take a bit of thinking outside the box. Better childcare provision for all would also be great!!

It might be worth asking the TA’s at your daughter’s school; at my kids school the TA’s often take kids home and look after them for working parents for some extra money.

@PatsFruitCakeso if it’s the same for both parents, why is it women taking 99% of the pay cuts/ lack of progression opportunities/ asking for flexibility?
I worked in a hospital in the pandemic. There was a female consultant who had to request to drop to two days a week due to homeschooling. Her husband couldn’t possibly be expected to help out due to his job. Bearing in mind she was a doctor in a pandemic. He was a solicitor. He wasn’t even doing the two days she was at work, they got a family member to drop in.

Dads, on the whole, are not making these sacrifices.

I work for a large professional firm and if we were asked this question during the recruitment process we would absolutely look to be flexible to ensure we got the right person in the role. I hope they are similar Op.

@FearfulsaintsI can tell you what happens. Men do not want 50/50 custody.

Have you checked your dd will actually be able to access the after school club in reception? I know none of our local primaries allow this (and most want half a term of half days as they start).

I feel your frustration. I was effectively forced out of a senior role in my first career due to being turned down for flexible working after maternity leave. Like you I was flabbergasted that such a situation was possible.

But 4pm is quite early to leave the office, in a situation where people might reasonably be wanting meetings at that time.

I think it sounds like a childminder or after-school nanny might be the way to go?

My mum had this to deal with decades ago and the solution was I was collected by a childminder after school and my mum picked me up from her house on her way home from work. I was perfectly happy. Having a solid career is so important, it worth looking at all the options.

Your a mum first. Single parent or not she has to be the priority over your career, it sounds like she's already missing out. This job sounds like a step too far. Your career will have to wait for 15yrs or so.

All of our local primaries allow reception (and nursery) children in the after school club - have never heard of schools doing otherwise

Where I work we could definitely not be able to let anyone go earlier as the busiest time is between 4:30 and 5:30 as everything has to be done before close of business - and no we cannot do things earlier as depending on work coming in during the day.
Unfortunately we would have to say no and you would have to make alternative childcare arrangements

@Gustavo77would you say that to a dad?

If you're not willing to have DD collected by someone else, it sounds like you may not be a fit for the role. I empathise with your frustration, but at the end of the day, you're asking to go home an hour early every single day.

You can offer a pay cut, but if what they need is someone to be available 5-6, it won't matter. You can offer to work through your lunch, but their HR may be uncomfortable with that. That's the kind of thing you can overlook once or twice, but really the company is legally obligated to give you a break. In practice, people often find it hard to work straight through every day, and end up taking unofficial breaks to compensate. Or the quality of someone's work suffers as a result of slogging through. They may have seen this before and be unwilling to repeat.

It can also create frustration among childless colleagues, as they watch you leave early every day and have to cover your absence. Working through lunch might work for some companies, but if yours is known to close for lunch and not take appointments for that hour, for example, then you can't do the needed work on your break, and your unavailability will inevitably spill over onto your colleagues. Who probably won't see it as the fault of the patriarchy or your ex husband. Resentments may brew.

There are a lot of factors to consider, even if the hiring manager wants to be accommodating. Not your fault or theirs - just a bad fit, potentially.

Op I think (maybe I'm wrong) that you've posted whilst utterly pissed off at it all being unfair. Fingers crossed you get some good news in the next few days and it all works out

The main problem is the school - what is the point of after school club if most people finish work at 5. we switched schools partly because of this, plus the other school was better

Hopefully you employer will be flexible

Why would it cost loads?

You could collect from a childminder, my neighbour is one and parents collect from her.

Your title about it being women is annoying, you chose badly for your dds father.

And you're not helping with the women can run companies when you're pulling the I'm a single parent with a child card.

Would you do that in writing? How would you enforce that if it breaks down and you divorce or split up?

Also made up of people who assume childless women will pick up work slack…..

People with children may still have caring responsibilities (eg elder care).

But it doesn’t matter. If you want mothers in the workplace, stop functioning as though they’re just the same as men who abdicate whatever caring “responsibilities” they have to the nearest unpaid or badly paid woman.

Good employer recognises difference, wherever that difference is coming from.