To feel if they say no that I may as well bloody well give up on working? And that women are still having to make the compromise?

[AnwI]

I’ve just been offered a great job. I have a DD who is starting school in September. There is an after school class that is until 5pm. However, for me to get there in time to collect her I would need to leave the office at 4pm. I’ve asked the recruiter to ask this and she’s waiting for a reply.

This job comes with a massive pay rise, it’s a good career move and since becoming a single parent when dd was 3 I’ve done everything I can to keep going. Ex does his bit financially but does absolutely nothing in the week…I’ve tried many times to ask him to change work pattern etc but he says he can’t (or won’t).

I am going to feel absolutely deflated and resentful if this company does not agree to this. I know it’s not the company’s job to ensure my dd is looked after etc etc (im familiar with these points!) but the entire office industry is set up for working men who came home to housewives running the home. I am trying my best here and yet I feel it’s all stacked against me…I absolutely hate that I’ve had to even ask it at all as I wish I could just work as late as I wanted in whichever location I wanted.

I am going to be so crushed if they don’t agree to it.

Not ideal, but could you work an extra hour from home in the evening to compensate for leaving an hour earlier? I think that you need to try and propose solutions here.

I just don't see how this is compatible with you taking 90 minutes at 4 to do pick-up and then look after a reception aged child? What time do you think you'd be logging back on? Surely if you're expected to be available into the evening then people are going to want things in that time?

There are so many things that are hard here, but one of the primary ones seems to be the distance between the workplace and the school and then the school and home. Is this really viable? Are you going to be in this office every day?

I really feel for you - I went for a job that involved a big commute, got it and then had to turn it down when I really, really worked through what that would look like as childcare logistics. It was depressing and deflating and it limits my options that I'm not willing/able to do that commute: I would have a lot more, better-paid options if I did. But I am now so glad I didn't take that job; it would have been on paper just about possible but I think it would have been an absolute nightmare in practice.

I’m a single mum and I know where you’re coming from op. I lost a job (pre Covid) because I left at 5pm “on the dot” to pick up my daughter from nursery. They even put it in the letter stating they were not extending my probation.

Things are definitely better now but it’s still tough

Quite.

And very often a divorce or separation means things like 'choosing somewhere to raise you children' becomes more where can I afford on one income, whilst tied to an area to be near the ex for the child's sake, but this area that worked well when we were together works less well apart.

It jars me that following a separation the women is expected to have the child 90% of the time and dad gets to be the fun every other weekend dad. Typically.

No sacrifice to his working hours or income. Then he moans about having to pay maintenance. 🙄 Many such cases

No helpful suggestions but an afterschool club that ends at 5pm doesn’t seem that useful as majority of jobs also finish at that time.

is there really no option for your child’s school that is not a drive away and so remote that no childminder will do a pick up there?

This seems very odd to me. How have you ended up with this school choice? Could you move house? If this new job genuinely is the massive pay rise and career boost that you say it is then sounds like you should move mountains to make it work.

Presumably your current job is similar but I assume she’s at a nursery at the moment with longer opening hours?

Sadly, it’s very hard to be a single parent and do a Big Job. My husband and I both have busy professional jobs but we share the flexibility and, crucially, work very late and very intensely when the other one is on childcare duty. I think employers are much happier with flexibility when it’s not every day of the week. And it’s usually easier if in a job you have been in for a long time where you have built up trust.

Good luck.

Could you make up that hour in the evening?

you’re right the whole thing stinks by the way x

So your an hour to school then 30 mins home, nothing closer or the option to move? I’m sure you have thought of this, but that’s a long commute.
Fingers crossed for you!

Surely it’s discriminatory if they don’t agree to this?

How would this be different for a single dad?

Sorry am just reading again and do have some thoughts. It’s May now so you don’t need the accommodation until then. I wouldn’t have mentioned it for now, but if they do say no can you get a childminder to pick up straight from school rather than after school provision. Sorry ski, read so has probably already been mentioned.

Mad that the after school club doesn’t run until 6pm.

One thing to note is that many schools don’t offer after school club for reception age children as they think it’s too much for little ones. I would double check this.

Who are all these women that are prepared to stay at home and do the running around for 4 pounds an hour? Which realistically is all that people can afford to pay for childcare out of PAYE salary but isn’t viable as a business unless you have about five of them in which case they can’t meet the individual needs of running round after school clubs for the child’s interests.
The whole system is just falling apart at the seams

Do you know any? I’ve never met a single dad that didn’t have his side piece/mother in tow doing all the donkey work.

Yes but OP could find a school that is more suitable for her requirements. Maybe not immediately, but as a longer term solution.

Well my husband changed his days at work to provide childcare.

So have this discussion BEFORE you have children.

OP, I totally agree with you and know how hard it all is as a fellow working professional single mother. It IS unfair and you’re totally right that the world of work in this country is totally set up for the man with a big job/stay at home wife model still, which is ridiculous in this day and age but you’re right that the big jobs are still mostly occupied by men who have had this model in their lives and see no reason for change.

I still remember having a conversation with my (female!) solicitor after I split up with my ex husband due to domestic abuse when my son was 4 (at this stage I had chucked him out and he’d disappeared off for a bit entirely to another county for work for a year but had just come back demanding sole “custody”). She was asking what the pattern of my son’s day was and was horrified that he was in nursery until after 7pm every weeknight (I managed to find a 7-7 nursery near my work, it was the only way I could complete my last couple of important years postgrad training and y’know earn enough money for us to live on). She said that I need to change that as “most judges want to see children having their tea at 5 and tucked up in bed at 5.30” and that it would go against me in terms of child “custody” arrangements.

And I remember feeling so overwhelmed and deflated just thinking that the whole system is so stacked against me as a woman, to the point that it’s going to be seen as a negative if I have a job, to the point that my abusive ex might win custody, yet I need to earn money as a single mother to put food on the table and keep a roof over our head, so how on earth am I supposed to do this.

OP, just ignore the people saying you shouldn’t have asked for flexibility straight up, if it’s the only way you can make things work then you literally have no choice. And the good thing for you is that I do think many places are a LOT more open to being flexible for this sort of thing than prepandemic. I also don’t think the recruiter would have suggested it if she didn’t think there was a good chance they would agree. I really hope you get it. Also ignore the perfect “SmugMarrieds” who have apparently never put a foot wrong in their lives on any decision and feel that people like you and me should suffer for the rest of our lives for the mistake of having had children with a less than wonderful man. Like we didn’t think they were wonderful when we married them in the first place argh.

Can your dp flex at all? I work 9-5 so do drop off and dh works 7-3 so does pick up - also lucky to have flexibility as well for both of us.

I could just scream at the attitudes of some of you people.

My single Dad very much did the work growing up.

You are going to have to pay a childminder.
The men you whinge about kind of pay for childcare in the form of financially supporting their wives, it isn't like anyone gets anything for free.
I know it's annoying though!

Teaching absolutely but I'm referring to office workers working from home claiming to log on in the evening for several hours to work.

I think we all know teachers end up with no choice but to mark books and plan in the evening sadly

It's tough OP. You have asked for the flexibility in hours to be able to leave at 4 (and presumably log in at home in the evening to pick up the rest of the days work). I do think you need to have a back up plan. They might say no, or they might say OK generally but you must be able to stay present beyond 4 when there is a specific meeting/event.

Admittedly I'm not a single mum but when I had my first (20 years ago) I had this issue. My husband asked for flexible hours and his boss laughed in his face. Luckily the whole office finished at 4 on Fridays so he could do that pick up. I desperately needed to work full time - mortgage was huge in those days - so I had to work something out. I persuaded employer to let me leave at 4 Mondays and Tuesdays (these were the days we were least likely to have client events) and found a childminder to pick up from nursery and have son until 7pm when either of us could pick up. She later gave up childminding but worked as a nanny for us (originally at her house as she also had young kids) and later at our house.

I won't say it was perfect/ easy and I had massive mum guilt about my baby having such a long day - he would be bathed and ready for bed by the time I got back but he seems to be unscathed. He's 20 now and at uni and we have a close loving relationship. And it meant he did get picked up from nursery by a parent 3 out of 5 days. And I was able to fit in my work (just) attend client evening events when needed, be seen and heard and build my career, get promoted etc.

We later had another child and nanny arrangement continued until covid. More WFH for both of us meant we could juggle between us without the extra help. Would your employer agree to at least 1 day wfh?

I agree that it's hugely frustrating that women are expected to be left "holding the baby" and step down at work or solve the problem with complicated and expensive childcare. I wish there was a way to force society to make men more accountable. But we can rail against an imperfect world or do what we can, in our own small way, to change it. For me I felt that clawing my way up (I'm a partner in a very male dominated law firm) helped me gain a bit more of a voice for women who want to do the same.

Sorry, rambling, but good luck!

I have never met one. In 25 years of parenting. 21 years of the school runs in private and public schools.

What did your dad do for work btw ? Did they offer him much flexibility in his professional career back in the day?

I’m not surprised you’re frustrated! This sort of situation is a tale as old as time, and it gets me so cross.

What you said about the courts not being able to make someone do the parenting is true. FWIW, I think it was worth you asking about the flexible working from the off. If you have this in place, then it is a lot less stressful overall. What I think a lot of companies fail to see is that kids don’t stay little forever. They start school and 6yrs down the line, they’re at secondary. Allowing (of course where possible) the flexible working means that they’re able to tap into a valuable resource (working parents*). Also helps with staff loyalty, happier staff etc. The staff are able to keep working and progressing. Before I had kids, I worked whatever shift I was told. When my parents were still alive and when I was still with XH (before he turned unreliable etc), I worked whatever shift I was told. Once my youngest is old enough, I’ll go back to doing nights as well as days.

*NB disclaimer: I am not suggesting that people who are not parents are not a valuable resource!! OP though was the one who got the job offer. The company thought she was the best candidate for the role. So it would be stupid to discount her if there was a possibility of making flexible working work.

Yes work isn’t set up for housewives…but OP is not just a house wife and mother, she is also qualified and trained in the role she works in. In the same way, I’m a qualified registered nurse, but I’m also a single mother of two.

OP, it’s always worth asking. When XH walked 6yrs ago, I approached my bosses and asked for flexible hours to cover the wraparound care times (my youngest was 5 and childcare hours did not cover the early starts and late finishes my shift times had). My parents were dead, I had no one else to reliably help. Childminders were full. The Matrons agreed to trial it for 3 months. It was a success. I was able to keep those hours until my youngest was in Yr 6 and able to make her own way safely to and from school (it was a bus journey away). I was promoted twice in that time. It meant my ward was able to keep an experienced staff member, and it meant that I was able to stay in my speciality. The only times I was unable to work were if I was sick, or DC were sick (rather than due to childcare issues). It really removed a huge amount of stress.

XH is my youngest’s dad, but I can count on one hand the times - since we split (not that he was wholly reliable beforehand) - he has actually looked after her, done a school run or watched her for the day when she was ill etc, even though he is in and (mainly) out of work. He’d either agree to it and then not show, or he’d leave a text message overnight to say he’s not doing it, or go AWOL etc. Even during Covid, after the first lockdown, when HE wasn’t working and childcare wasn’t in place (wraparound care was shut due to covid, and a lot of places wouldn’t have my kids because I worked on a respiratory ward), he lasted about 4 days before messaging me one night at 2am before my shift to say that he wasn’t going to do childcare as we weren’t together anymore: never mind that he is DC’s dad, never mind that he’s not paid a bean in child support. Go figure.

For those suggesting childminders and other settings - my DC are now 18 and 11. In those years of being a parent, I found only one childminder that would cover the hours I needed to work a normal 7am to 8pm shift (I dropped the DC off at 6:30am and picked them up at 8:30pm). It was £220 a day (more than what I earned as a B5 nurse). I managed that for one year before the CM stopped working. Nannies were more expensive. There are often waiting lists and not enough childcare places available. Live in nanny/au pair would have been ideal for me but my housing situation and cost of it prevented that.

Sorry, I’m bloody raging now, and that was a longer post than I planned!