To feel if they say no that I may as well bloody well give up on working? And that women are still having to make the compromise?

[AnwI]

I’ve just been offered a great job. I have a DD who is starting school in September. There is an after school class that is until 5pm. However, for me to get there in time to collect her I would need to leave the office at 4pm. I’ve asked the recruiter to ask this and she’s waiting for a reply.

This job comes with a massive pay rise, it’s a good career move and since becoming a single parent when dd was 3 I’ve done everything I can to keep going. Ex does his bit financially but does absolutely nothing in the week…I’ve tried many times to ask him to change work pattern etc but he says he can’t (or won’t).

I am going to feel absolutely deflated and resentful if this company does not agree to this. I know it’s not the company’s job to ensure my dd is looked after etc etc (im familiar with these points!) but the entire office industry is set up for working men who came home to housewives running the home. I am trying my best here and yet I feel it’s all stacked against me…I absolutely hate that I’ve had to even ask it at all as I wish I could just work as late as I wanted in whichever location I wanted.

I am going to be so crushed if they don’t agree to it.

Ex childminder here.
It is part of the contract discussion to choose your hours. After school pick ups and school holiday hours. You decide a window to collect from cm home.

Cm absolutely can collect from a remote school.
You may want to contact your local council for their list of registered cm.

A good relationship with a cm can last years.

Ime large companies are brilliant ref flexibility.

I had friends in senior roles who only worked 9-3pm mon to Friday and during term time only when their kids started school.

I haven't caught up on all your updates, but I do hope they say Yes.

I feel your frustration OP, and it’s all much more of a challenge for single parents.

I was 100% resolute: parenting would be properly 59/50.

Yes, he had to ask for flexibility as much as I did. Take as much time for sick days. Take as much responsibility for managing the extra stuff, the packed lunches , the trips, the parties.

And until women dig in their heels it always will be women making the career compromises.

And while women make all the compromises they will be looked at as less valuable employees.

I realise that in many sectors (e.g health, emergency services ) jobs are not flexible but where they have potential both parents can do their bit.

Does her Dad live close enough to do pick ups?

Is there a school closer, within walking distance?

@Rewis DH has taken on leadership of the organisation he works for. He was horrified by the lack of women in the higher levels of leadership and is actively promoting that part-time leaders roles are possible and maternity leave won’t be career impacting either. I’ve told him he needs to sell that to men as well. Very few men in the organisation take up the option of shared parental leave or work part-time.

When he used to take leave to watch DS in a school event some of his male peer group were surprised he would do that as I would be available so why did he need to as well. He wants to make the office a much more family friendly employer but he still has some of this male group in leadership roles, and is fighting against these beliefs

It is grossly unfair that these things always fall on women. It must be ten times harder for you being a single parent OP. Single mums are heroes. My lovely ex-employer made me redundant on maternity leave and I'm still working part time in a crappy job while I'm studying for a new career. All the while DH is filling up his pension pot whilst mine is getting a pittance. I shouldn't have to think 'oh it's fine, he'll look after me when I'm older ' because hello I'm on mumsnet I know how many men cheat. I get really angry about it too. This is why the gender pay gap is still very much alive and kicking. Women lose out when they have to take a step back after kids. It won't be forever though OP. Before you know it your daughter will be walking to school herself and you won't need wraparound care. I'm in the position where I want to ramp up my studying but feel I can't because of work and childcare commitments. I've applied for a course but I'm not sure I can even do it if they accept me. I might have to wait until my kids are a bit more self sufficient 🙁it is extremely frustrating when you want to crack on but you can't.

You need a childminder. It’s what people used to see as normal before the higher expectations around flexible working and wfh.

OP if you are taking on a senior management role where you are expected to work late, you need to ensure you have childcare sorted.
There are a variety of options as many PP have articulated. You just seem to be raging against the machine when there are have been huge strides forward in flexible working, help for working parents, shared parental leave.

What is it you actually want??

Could you offer to pay one of the Mum's to collect her with their daughter and have her for a couple of hours? Lots of Mums would welcome a little extra income 😅

I would find a good childminder as exes can be unreliable. Childminders are worth their weight in gold. They will have to do the school pick up too.

I would definitely not count on one's ex! They are usually a law unto themselves!

Yanbu - when I moved into my new job I was explicit that I worked part time and different hours and that I couldn't take the role if they didn't accept that. Luckily they needed my skill set and are very happy with what I do in the hours I work

However I still have a boss whose wife became a SAHM after having kids, and who openly says that he used to work late to avoid bathtimes. I still get comments of "we have to rearrange the meeting because Molten is off". I let it slide off me because I got the flexibility I needed, but the default is still that someone else will be picking up the slack.

Would you be expected to attend evening events?

I would be looking at flexible childcare options - nanny or childminder to make your life easier. It’s not easy but sounds a good career move and hopefully you can make it work.

I hear you OP

This is one of the many reasons why I hate the "man with a big job / SAHM" model. For as long as many senior males in business have a woman at home doing the school run etc, we will never have equality. When senior male staff are leaving at 4pm to do the school run, that's when we'll gain flexibility in the workplace

You’d be mad to give up on this job. Take it, start working there and work it out with your line manager. Most large companies have flexibility, particularly for professional roles. But you should start first and then discuss with your senior leader. I’ve worked with work flexibility for the last 11 years and no manager has ever said no to me leaving at 4pm or coming in late, provided I get my work done. In a professional role it’s not about the hours worked, it’s about the work being done and that offers a lot of flexibility for how you work or where you work from. It’s actually a huge benefit to women and large corporate companies are definitely leading the way on this.

It's not going to look good for you if you are already asking for special treatment and flexibility that other staff members are not afforded before you've even signed the employment contract. Being given special treatment over other longer standing colleagues is sure to breed resentment from others in no time. Those others may also be parents who have arranged childcare. It sounds very much like you want the pay increase but are reluctant to dip your hands into your pocket and pay for a childminder.

This could also perpetuate the view some hold that certain parents expect special treatment and are given more flexibility than others. If you are leaving early daily and your colleagues are required to stay and pick up the slack, the others will be rolling their eyes when the school call asking you to pick up your daughter if she is ever unwell. Your choice to have a child with a partner who is dragging his heels is not the responsibility of prospective employers.

I completely agree OP, but you won’t get much sympathy here. MN seems to at best tolerate single parents, but only if you never moan about it or don’t have money to throw at the problem. How dare you not willingly put your child in childcare 8-6 just so you can achieve what most men (both co parents and married ones) manage due to the sacrifices of the women in their lives?
I worked out a couple of years ago that what I needed was a housewife. I have great earning potential and I’m very good at what I do. But what I can do has to involve me being able to do school pick up twice a week as there are literally no childcare options and I have a child with SEN. She needs me to pick her up twice a week or becomes hugely overstimulated and has a meltdown. The other days I have a mix of family, friends and her dad.
It sucks that we have to be the sole breadwinner and the sole care giver. Very few men have to be both. Even the most involved dads are not the ones who their children cry for at night or need when they’re puking or can console them when they’re being bullied. So we have to be that person and then magically code switch to being a professional, and we have to be even more professional and appear more dedicated because we are already judged and underestimated due to being single mums.
Yet many women on here feel it works just fine and you’re just looking for reasons not to work.

I think in a senior role, flexibility is easier but I still think you need to look into paid afterschool care/childminder.

Being in a senior role no one is (or should be!) monitoring your hours it’s about output. So having more autonomy over my hours I am able to attend parent sessions/school play/parents evening etc without having to ‘ask’ for permission.

DS started reception in Sept and goes to breakfast club before school and childminder after. Yes it’s quite a long day but he had been at nursery 4 days a week prior to that. The childminder is fab, and gives DS his tea which is super helpful and then we can have some time together after I pick him up.

I think you need to be mindful of the other flexibility you might need as a working parent (when kids are sick….) and make sure it’s going to be a fair balance between the employers needs and yours

After school nanny. We found an older lady who wanted part time work. She did 3-7pm each day including picking up from school, taking kids to clubs, cooking dinner, kids laundry, keeping kids rooms tidy etc.

it made a massive difference in the first years of school because I could work confidently and kids were happy. And the house was tidy!

This is far too simplistic a view. The op is not asking for work to be run to suit school hours, she is making the point that it is still the societal norm in this country to have the woman juggle more often than the man, sadly we live in a state which regards childcare as being the parents responsibility so does not provide reasonably costed long day childcare, we have many employers who value being present over being productive (obviously I am referring to roles which are not based on being present). Yes there are solutions in this case but they are expensive and will still leave op in a situation where she will have to be not at work if the childminder is suddenly unavailable.
I am thankfully past this stage but can see my daughters’ generation suffering. We have not moved forward in childcare provision in fifty years, now it just costs even more. We encourage girls to see they can achieve as much as men then they get to work and realise that biology cannot be altered and too many workplaces choose not to be flexible, sadly this attitude appears to come from women too but is still, as the op says, based on patriarchal attitudes.

How many days in the office do you need to do? Surely you split pick ups with your partner? So you’re asking for flexibility some of the week rather than every day?

Sorry, I just don't understand the drama of this.

When ours were primary age, DH and I both worked (in London with long commutes), so we had to get a childminder to pick up from school, and then we collected from the childminder after work. Just like everyone else did, except those families with SAHMs. No drama, just expected and normal.

Obviously we looked into things like schools and childcare options before choosing where to settle to raise our family.

Using childminders when you work FT is just part and parcel of working life, regardless of whether you are male, female, single, married, co-parenting etc.

Only read OP's posts.

I have been a full time working, lone parent for many years.
DS2 went to a childminder after school for many years. She closed at 6pm.
Childminders usually work during the school holidays which meant DS2 had continuity of care.

He was the same age as your DD when I started a new job. I did what I had to do for 6 months and then asked for flexible working. There's only so much flexibility you can do with full time hours (and wfh was less accessible then - this is over 10 years ago), but it did give me some wiggle room.

If you are on your own you're going to need flexible childcare options - the after school club finishing at 5pm is going to be a bit rigid.

I’ve got everything crossed for you.

You are 100% correct that these seemingly small seemingly immovable rules are still holding women back. Yet they look so insignificant to men that they cannot comprehend what a big impact it has.

the older I get the more furious I become with the whole patriarchal shit show.

OP says "Ex does his bit financially but does absolutely nothing in the week…I’ve tried many times to ask him to change work pattern etc but he says he can’t (or won’t)."

I just want to say that I did this exact position for someone - I picked up their child from after school club, drove them home and did childcare for an hour and a half. So do consider looking for someone if you need to (I haven’t RTFT)

Well good for you. But a. There was two of you to pick up any slack and b. Not every school has armies of childminders picking up. The school my two went to had 1, with a humongous waiting list.