To think we say we want both parents to make changes to work patterns after baby but in reality workplaces don't want dad's to actually

[LostShepherdsPie]

It’s 2025 and I would like to think that we expect dad's to be fully hands on, especially on those early years and so if we do see a dad needing flexibility to do drop off etc it would be supported. When I returned from mat leave, I went part-time through a flexible working request so I thought it's only fair my partner is uses flexi-time to do nursery drop-offs and hybrid working to help with the one day when I'm at work and we don't have a nursery space for that day but it’s been met with frosty reactions.

Today, while WFH and juggling care after family support fell through, our 16-month-old briefly appeared on camera. Even after giving a heads-up and apologising, he felt judged.

Funny how women doing the same get asked, “Isn’t your husband around?” as if to say can't they help out? Yet, here my husband is doing just that but he's telling me he's getting strong hints it's frowned upon.
For context he is working in the charity sector / public sector and I thought they were all, 'were fully supportive of flexible work patterns / blah blah ...not quite huh.

Btw He’s doing a great job at work, with glowing feedback so it's not a case that any of this is actually impacting his work.

The sort of job where you can do that is generally very part time, the work can be done at any time of the day or night, you are judged on performance not on hours worked and any client facing time you are definitely without children. I used to work in the evenings when dh was around. It was tough.

Well you’re either working, or you’re looking after your child. The friend that says she’s managing both is neglecting one or both. Maybe the neglected one doesn’t have a voice yet.
The keyword in wfh is working.

I lived through Covid with a then 1 year old, I was neither a “key worker” nor furloughed - too important to furlough but not elected a key worker - I was in an awful middle ground where I was expected to work with no childcare. My manager told me to get a playpen. My husband worked long hours out of the house, so I was totally alone.

I feel very strongly that you simply cannot work from home AND care for young children. It’s not news OP. If people try that’s up to them but I don’t think you can do either effectively.

As well as the fact the employer is paying you to work when you are actually caring for your child… more importantly, the child deserves a carer that is focused on, interacting with and nurturing, them. No wonder we are seeing so many young children with speech and language delay if this is what is happening. Your child shouldn’t be an inconvenience when you are caring for them, they should be your priority.

If women are being asked “isn’t your husband around” - it’s because they shouldn’t be responsible for caring for their child while they are working - NOT because their husband should be doing this while working

My workplace is really clamping down on this skewed view of ‘flexible working’ which as said already should not include looking after toddlers while being paid to work. It’s created bad vibes in my workplace as you get people (like me) who make sure the kids are always covered childcare wise and are fully present and those who get paid the same to do the same jobs who think they can drop in and out of calls as they please as they’re actually just looking after kids. It’s not ok.

I actually think it’s the opposite. I think in a lot of cases it would be absolutely frowned upon if a woman was working while caring for a baby, but men will get some grace as it shows they’re such a great dad.

It should be frowned upon in all situations though.

I can assure you, having had a 16 month old at home during Covid, you cannot work and look after them at the same time. I basically had a breakdown trying to do it.

In an emergency, yes maybe you take a half day and work while they're napping. With an older child (school age) you can manage more easily. But expecting to regularly WFH with a toddler? Nah.

working and looking after a baby is totally unacceptable
We would revoke WFH for this

No - you can’t work from home whilst looking after a young child. It would be short changing the employer and child. The exception is an older child who can be trusted to play i dependently and needs minimal input from the parent. If you can’t shut the door to your home office and know that you can work undisturbed for several hours , you can’t wfh with children in the home.

My son at 7 would have happily watched television with snacks for a few hours .

I don't believe that a woman who had a baby join a call would be treated any differently to a man who had a baby join a call. Whether or not someone is ok with a baby joining a call really depends on the call and the employer. As has been mentioned there was a lot of leniency over covid, and I'd also expect leniency in non-standard situations (for example someone joining a call outside of normal working hours, whilst on leave, or if acknowledging it was a one-off because the normal caregiver was unavailable - I work in a long hours role with teams spread across the world and noisy children/babies occasionally appearing on a call is completely ok in these types of situations. Not so much if there's a recurring 10am meeting and it's clear that the parent is always in sole care of the baby). Very few employers would be ok if they discovered that an employee was regularly working and looking after a young child at the same time.

That said, your situation is why we need men playing a more equal role. The fact that your husband was shocked that this was seen as a negative is (a) amusing, and (b) an important experience for him - it's not until people realize the realities of being the primary caregiver that they understand the impact it has. That's why you get idiots suggesting 'just work and look after the baby at the same time' - it's simply not possible in most jobs or permitted by most employers. No one who actually has experience of needing to work and look after a young child at the same time would be shocked at the reaction your husband got, and hopefully it will help him understand more of what the actual impact is.

[Editing to add - the reason I say until people realize is that it's not just men who don't get this. You get a lot of women who either haven't had much experience with young children and don't appreciate you can't just sit a 6 month old on an ipad, and also women who haven't worked in a desk job who don't appreciate that you can't just keep stopping work because your baby needs you without it impacting your job. However it's only really dads who can be expected to take on an equal role here hence me saying it's important men start playing an equal role. It's not like you can force a 21 year old new grad to look after someone's baby for a month so they appreciate that it's like]

That’s not an expectation- it’s a choice your friend has made.

There is absolutely no way you can work effectively whilst WFH and looking after a baby or young child, and the abuse of this concession is why a lot of employers are now insisting people return to the office. You are being paid to work, not provide childcare for your DC.
The point of flexible working is to facilitate you working around your childcare arrangements, not for you to actually provide the childcare.
You (and by that I mean you AND your partner) either need to arrange proper formal childcare for your WFH days, or rearrange your working days with your respective employers so that one of you can provide the necessary care when the other is working.

Anyone who’s said you can/should look after a dc while wfh is wrong. It’s not possible and it shouldn’t happen for mums, dads or dc’s. Kids need proper childcare arranging so parent can do their work. Your DP was wrong and it gives parents who wfh a bad name to be doing this. It’s got nothing to do with a co being a charity and therefore should be chill about this, that’s so wrongheaded.

My company doesn't allow wfh for childcare. Doesn't matter if your the mum or the dad!

My husband changed his working days for childcare and he never felt judged at all.

16 month olds need constant supervision. The only time my 14 month old is left unattended in a room is if he’s asleep in his cot or in his playpen if I need to run to the loo. It’s unsafe to WFM and look after a toddler of that age at the same time.

If you can’t find a nursery place or rely on a family member for your work day, then you will need to find a childminder.

I was debating WFM on an evening (single parent) but it would be too risky incase one of the dc woke up.

I manage a big team. I encourage both dads and mums to have flexible work hours or part time to accommodate their families.

However there are too many people who think that can mean "managing" with a baby or toddler at home and no childcare because they refuse to give up any pay but really want part time hours. You cannot work with a child that young at home and no childcare - you take annual leave if your childcare falls through. Its not fair on your colleagues.

Re the speech delay - my friends child had a speech delay and she WFH 2 days, nursery 3 days. She was (and still is) tethered to a tablet - the only child I know who will sit ALL day on a tablet and chose that over the park or outside play. She has a significant speech delay and I’m not at all surprised. I know that’s anecdotal but you can see the logic.

You’re both the reason so many genuine WFH colleagues are forced back into the office when the environment doesn’t work for them.

in what world are you allowed to look after your child when you should be at work? You find childcare or you take annual leave. It’s as simple as that. I’m supportive of flexible working and working parents, but I’m not supportive of not actually doing any work because you’re parenting a toddler. No wonder they were pissed off!

To me flex is:

• Allowing early or late starts/finishes so that parents can each do a pickup every day
• being open to requests for part time
• allowing wfh to reduce commute time

It does not mean:

• turning a blind eye to that fact that every other friday you "wfh" with a baby and get fuck all done while getting paid

I must say. The vast majority of people I know still wfh with no mention of going back to the office.

Most places don't pay for the space anymore..

Honestly I find it infuriating - in my sector the vast majority WFH since Covid. I now take contracts on a national basis so I’m not always local. Staff do try this. My colleague made out like it was my employers problem when she was managed re WFH with two nursery aged kids - she said she can’t afford the childcare. I was astounded - why wouldn’t we all work 3 days and get paid for 5?!

I honestly don’t know how someone can work from home with a 16 month old, I found it difficult to give work my full attention when I was at home with a 9 year old during Covid but obviously work places were a lot more understanding then as there was no other option. 16 month old surely you have to have eyes on them at all times unless they are asleep

👏🏻

Yes and it’s those that abuse it that spoil it for the rest of us.

This. I’ve seen people taking about WFH jobs they can do with children and this is what they mean; not full time jobs/ full days!

We had young children at home during the pandemic, when my DH was forced to WFH. Even with me free to look after them, in our small house it was an absolute nightmare. It doesn’t work.

It’s not fair on the 16 month old either.

Our workplace tries to be flexible and accommodating. There’s some wfh, and if your childcare falls through, or you have an ill child as long as you check with your line manager it’s always fine to work from home with them there. (No one judges and there’s some leeway there with hours as well e.g. you may need to start earlier, take a longer lunch, work later, do a shorter day and make the hours up.) No one judges or feels judged as they know the process and that’s both male and female colleagues. However there are people who have tried to work from home and not pay for childcare and have had children running in the background of calls, that is frowned upon and dealt with. It’s fine to have older children around, but they shouldn’t be disturbing work calls, although I have jealous colleagues when my teen brings me a cuppa!