Is our parenting technique too gentle?!

[GJD23000]

I need a bit of advice. My husband and I are starting to think we are too gentle on our 6 year old DD. I absolutely wouldn’t class us as ‘gentle parents’ but we are definitely on the gentler side of strict, we only have the one so I would say we are pretty relaxed with her. We are incredibly flexible in our jobs, which we love, but it also means we can be at her beck and call and are almost ‘too’ available for her. I ask now because her behaviour, especially around bedtime, has been getting increasingly bad - tonight she has screamed at us for over an hour, calling us horrible names and being very rude. She refuses to go to bed without us going to bed next door at the same time (we have on occasions done this when tired and watched some tv) Her attitude can sometimes be bad, quite rude and often she comes out with really mean things. Other times she is amazing, sooo funny, kind, loving and friendly but her ‘mean’ times seem to be increasing and I am wondering if we need to be stricter. You read the internet and it tells you all the horror stories of strict parenting but I’m starting to think the lack of it is leading to her disrespecting us….what are we doing wrong?! Help!

Aim for ‘warm~strict’ op.

As to the discussion here around the central issue. I think that Gentle parenting can be authoritative, or authoritative parenting can be gentle- but often people confuse it with permissive parenting, think they should let their children get away with anything, which is a disaster. Or make their children into their mates, which also doesn’t work. Kids need clear and consistent boundaries, with consequences for unacceptable choices. That doesn’t mean punishing them for being angry or for having preferences, it’s important to punish behaviour rather than feelings. But consequences are compatible with parenting gently, we don’t have to yell or be arbitrary or deny kids their own agency.

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This.

Children need boundaries to feel safe. Routines are oso good for them.

You need to start being firmer. Bed time, story then cuddles then you leave. Explain this during the day and then stick to it. No sitting in the corner etc. Screaming and mean name calling gets a consequence the next day. Being good at bedtime gets her a sticker on a chart. Maybe a treat at the weekend if she gets a week of stickers.

I don't mean hitting or screaming at them, I mean telling them very firmly that you will not be spoken to like that and if they continue you will do x (whatever consequence you feel is appropriate) whether that be losing something the following day or walking away and leaving them which is a very natural consequence to someone shouting at you and calling you names.

Yes, this. Communicate in a very clear and authoritative way. Distancing physically and asserting those boundaries. It's tough, but most of us have had to do this, at some point.

I took this approach with mine too and now as teens we have a very mutually respectful relationship and they come to me with anything and everything. Not allowing your child to speak to you rudely doesn't mean you'll push them away, it actually does the exact opposite.

I have a friend who would probably not complain about her 6 year olds behaviour but he speaks to her awfully. I think she's actually so used to it she barely notices anymore but she never corrects him on it and I just wonder how their relationship will be when he's older.

Good god, this is one of the daftest things I’ve ever heard, how on earth have you ended up in this situation. Of course you need to be stricter. She cannot dictate what you do, that’s ridiculous. If you don’t sort her out you are in for trouble ahead. You are the parent, parent your child.

Boundaries, rules, consequences, and manage her expectations. Explain actions and consequences in age appropriate, plain English.
Never threaten, plead, wheedle, or bargain. Be calm, matter of fact, and firm.

As well as the bedtime routine, give her a symbol of you that she can have in her room (such as a photo of you and a teddy) and transfer her attention to those when she demands you go to bed at the same time as her.

I would find this behaviour unacceptable for our 7 year old. She knows that regardless of how she's feeling, she cannot be rude, defiant or lash out physically.

I don't like the term, 'gentle parenting' as I think a lot of people use this to justify permissively parenting their children. I prefer the combination of responsive /authoritative parenting, where children have very clear expectations/boundaries for behaviour with consequences followed through. I do try to understand their behaviour in the context of how they are feeling, but I strongly feel that they should not be allowed always to justify bad behaviour based on how they are feeling. Would it be okay at work if I threw a tantrum because I was tired or hungry? No.

I have a duty to teach my children to behave in a world where one day they will be the responsible adults. They need to know that the expectation is that they will gradually, and in an age appropriate way, be able to talk about their needs and feelings without melting down/losing control.

Emotional regulation work with our daughter - e.g. getting her to notice when she's feeling stressed/overwhelmed and doing something to calm herself down before it escalates has helped. But no, this behaviour would not be acceptable to me.

'The mouse, the monster and me' is a good book to teach children of her age to speak and behave assertively. You may find the behaviour improves with firm boundaries from you but where she can meet her needs in a positive way, without behaving passively (e.g. whining) or aggressively (name calling etc).

I call this firm but fair parenting

No you haven't tried everything, you haven't tried growing a bloody backbone!

You're acting like you are frightened of her!

Take her to bed, story, cuddle and leave.

It sounds like a complete bedtime routine reset might be useful.

If bedtimes are horrid for you, they're probably horrid for her too.

I think I'd ask her her thoughts, maybe after a family meal (so away from the bedtime tensions). Tell her you'd like to make bedtimes nicer for everyone and ask her how she feels about them and what she thinks could improve them. After listening, I'd tell her exactly what is going to happen going forwards (which you'll have thought up in advance, but including at least one of her ideas). But being very clear what will happen if her unkindness continues.

She might have some great ideas or share a problem she's not mentioned before. Giving her (a very small amount of) control over the new routine will help with her sticking to it. My kids always responded well to a new routine if we let them type up the 'agreed' new routine on our work computers (with fancy fonts/colours).

And I also second the suggestion of a yoto player... they've given us happier, calmer bedtimes for years!

If you dont get a grip now op what the hell is she gonna be like in her teens,
Not everyone will take her crap and someone will put her in her place.

I've not read this article but agree on authority. I just hosted a large group of over excited 9 year olds for a party. On occasions they got a bit too rowdy and I absolutely did some telling off! I won't tolerate unkindness to eachother, mind
less destruction of my house, not taking turns, and I was very firm when this happened. The kids who were misbehaving the most and could not cope with being told off where the ones who have the most 'gentle' parents. All lovely people who I've known a long time but their gentle parenting means their kids won't be invited to come and behave badly at my house again!

At times they have to be told off, you have to be firm with them, and you have to show them that their behaviour is unacceptable as this will happen for them eventually in the real world and they will struggle with it. You can do those things while acknowledging their feelings and making sure they know they are loved/secure.

Great. Tell her that you will continue to do this for a week but next week you will sit on the landing. Then when she can deal with that you sit in your bedroom and when she can deal with that you will be downstairs.

Oh, but it’s “normal” for a child of 6 with SEN to scream abuse at their parents? 🙄 Get to fuck.

I didn’t think you meant abusive as in terrible language but more she uses the worst words she knows. Sample: my little brother would scream Willy bum fart as one word so willybumfart when he was especially furious at something as these were the strongest words he knew back then.

I’m guessing your daughter has cottoned on to the fact you feel lousy when she calls
you mean and says you’re a terrible mummy. I get it. The first time my daughter screamed that at me she was about 4 and I called my
best friend and cried. She’s a teenager now and eldest of 3. When I get called a horrible witch these days and the worst mum
ever it’s like water off a ducks back. Last week my son told me he was leaving home because I was so awful and I was like “do you promise?” 😈

Hold firm on your daughter missing her sleepover, she has to know you mean business. Maybe if she manages to turn things around over the next week (goes to bed with no fuss, doesn’t shout hurtful
things at anyone, doesn’t boss you around) she can earn that sleepover back for another date in the not too distant future?

Then we're on the same page though I would take care to avoid remote, arbitrary or disproportionate consequences.

Eg something like "I won't be in your room with you whilst you are calling me names and shouting. You need to stop now if you want me to stay with you"

A consequence which makes sense, happens immediately, is based in my boundaries of what I will / will not tolerate and can be reversed as soon as the unpleasant behaviour stops.

As opposed to

"That's it, no more puddings this week!"

Which is an arbitrary, deferred punishment that leaves the child nowhere to go with their behaviour.

Or

Shouting "how dare you be so rude to me you brat!"

Which is role modelling shouting and name calling to the child, as well as risking feelings of alienation and shame which may make the behaviour / relationship worse over time.

I was never too bothered about being called mean mummy or horrid mummy. I think many young kids do that when they aren't getting their own way.

I took it as evidence that what I was saying or doing was getting through. So I would say stop worrying about that. My response was usually "you don't want to see how mean I can really get, so stop pushing me." Then I would leave them to their strop and it nearly always subsided within about 15 minutes.

Children push boundaries and that is natural, but if you have no boundaries in place then this is the problem. They actually need this as they are unable to do things like reason and compromise. Therefore, a “do not speak like this to Mummy/Daddy” and explaining why this behaviour is not acceptable is a must, at the least. There’s no need for harsh tactics, but ‘gentle parenting’ does not help the child to regulate their emotions, or develop empathy.

Well done for at least questioning this; many parents wouldn’t, and being self aware is a necessity to parent! It’s very difficult to be objective but you’ve managed it. No doubt you’ll crack it :-)

Is she neurotypical? I’m not that strict with my 5 and 6 year old but there is no way they would get away with calling me names. You cannot tolerate that behaviour. You need to set boundaries, I would say you are going to take something from her that she really enjoys for a day, and is she continues it becomes a longer period of time.
however from my limited experience of 2 with a similar age, I would say that shouting and calling you names and saying mean things isn’t normal behaviour for a child of that age. Try not to be too hard on yourself, could be other reasons for this behaviour. You need to delve a little deeper.

Anybody, and I mean everybody, who has to ask if they are being too gentle on the kids is without a shadow of a doubt being too gentle on them.

And as for the “internet horror stories” of strict parenting, well let’s just say I’d have not the slightest hesitation in putting a random kid of 20-30 years ago up against a random kid of today and seeing who’s the more kind, selfless and respectful.

I'm afraid your child sounds like she’s behaving like a spoilt brat. (Not all they time, they never are). It’s only going to get worse, the transform will be painful, but you need to stop her otherwise she’ll grow up to be an awful person who’s all “me, me, me”.

6!? She sounds awful. Whatever you’ve been doing(or not doing), sounds as though the damage is done