Is our parenting technique too gentle?!

[GJD23000]

I need a bit of advice. My husband and I are starting to think we are too gentle on our 6 year old DD. I absolutely wouldn’t class us as ‘gentle parents’ but we are definitely on the gentler side of strict, we only have the one so I would say we are pretty relaxed with her. We are incredibly flexible in our jobs, which we love, but it also means we can be at her beck and call and are almost ‘too’ available for her. I ask now because her behaviour, especially around bedtime, has been getting increasingly bad - tonight she has screamed at us for over an hour, calling us horrible names and being very rude. She refuses to go to bed without us going to bed next door at the same time (we have on occasions done this when tired and watched some tv) Her attitude can sometimes be bad, quite rude and often she comes out with really mean things. Other times she is amazing, sooo funny, kind, loving and friendly but her ‘mean’ times seem to be increasing and I am wondering if we need to be stricter. You read the internet and it tells you all the horror stories of strict parenting but I’m starting to think the lack of it is leading to her disrespecting us….what are we doing wrong?! Help!

I “gentle parented” my 3 boys. I was bloody strict and had firm boundaries. I was clear about what the boundaries were and what would happen if they were kept and what would happen if they weren’t. Gentle parenting isn’t permissive parenting. Children need someone to be in charge, to be in control. Otherwise they take control and that actually makes them feel unsafe and insecure

This.

I tried gentle parenting and tbh I found it difficult to implement, it was too child centred iyswim. I went to common sense, be kind and loving and if she’s done something to really piss me off or upset me I let her know she’s doing it and a consequence for not stopping it. I think it’s important that she see’s that her behaviour has an impact on someone elses feelings so I sometimes I will state that I am starting to feel very angry.

I also think children should know when they are harming others very clearly. I think too much calmness teaches children there is no consequence to behaving appalling, I don’t think it teaches empathy at all. We have to send them out into the world and if they start shouting abusive stuff to other people there may be very swift consequences. I think kids who are over gentle parented will struggle with other peoples boundaries. Think about how you would react if you saw your DD behaving like that towards a teacher for example. I take the view that each member of my household has a right to be treated with kindness and respect, I include parents in that.

Mine is actually quite bad tempered and will definitely kick off about random things. We check that we’ve understood the problem but if the request we made is reasonable we make sure she follows through because she knows a privilege will be revoked if she doesn’t. She’s allowed to have a moan about it, thats fine. I also think some personalities need a different approach.

It’s really tough OP, DH and I were both raised by authoritarian parents and were trying to get it right when we started gentle parenting. We just found it wasn’t effective for us. Stop sitting in her room with her, she starts screaming then you move away and a privilege is revoked. You did the right thing cancelling her sleep over. She may follow you around yelling the first night but you have to keep repeatedly turning her around and walking her to her room etc and eventually it will sink in. Praise good behaviour lavishly. I thank DD for being helpful, kind or considerate etc, like every little thing “thank you helping with clearing up after dinner”, “thanks for offering to share your sweets, thats really kind of you”. You are trying to incentivise good behaviour and discourage negative behaviour. The praise is a really important counter balance whilst you are firming up your boundaries. She needs to see she’s not just being told off and corrected but that she’s getting lots of stuff right too.

We are all winging it OP, good parents care enough to want to make sure they are getting it right. Some kids have just got more forceful personalities thank others. They don’t all come out the same so you have to parent with the personality you have. Gentle parenting probably works best on already chill kids.

What’s gentle about it then?
it always seems like a weird way of stating you don’t use corporal punishment or something. I’ve known people to describe themselves as gentle parents who do everything from no rules natural consequences to turning their children into nervous anxious wrecks with pressure to be the best at everything. But still think they’re gentle parents because they don’t shout?!

There are two issues here and they're being lumped together

1. Your 6 year old doesn't want to go to sleep alone.

This is very common. Is she scared of being alone upstairs when you both are downstairs? Does she need your reassuring, comforting presence to go to sleep?
What's happening now is that she behaves badly, you stay (you're not interacting with her, but you're still staying) and she sleeps. Why not do her bedtime routine and then stay with her (non-interacting) until she sleeps. Tell her this will be happening in the daytime so she knows what to expect, then she has no need to use the bad behaviour. The point of conflict is removed and she's supported to go to sleep (quickly)

1. Your 6 year old is rude and disrespectful when she doesn't get what she wants.

I consider myself to be a gentle parent. I do not under any circumstances accept that sort of behaviour from a child. I don't care if it's bed time, or any other time. That behaviour needs addressing right then and there. Never mind about removing treats the next day, it's too far away to make the connection between crime and punishment in a litte kids mind. Put on your very best stern teacher voice, channel The Trunchbull "I beg your pardon. You do not speak to me like that. Stop that right now."
If she doesn't stop, then leave. That's the logical consequence. "I will not let you speak to me like that. I will come back when you have stopped being rude". Then return after a few minutes, if she's rude again, leave again. If she follows you out of her bedroom, pick her up and put her back in it.
Non of this is ideal, which is why I would remove the source of bedtime conflict as I said above. But if it does kicks off at bedtime, then she'll be late getting to sleep. But no way would I sit passively with headphones in while a child is shouting rudely at me. You need to be in charge. She needs you to be in charge.

I’m sorry, you sit in the corner of her room while she screams abuse at you?? Literally shut the door and walk away? A consequence of shouting vile abuse is that people won’t want to be around you. She needs to learn this!

oh hey, they wear earplugs though to ‘show her’ they’re not listening.

this is not gentle parenting. This is….fuck knows…really fucking weird parenting…..

Closer to five than four! And he seems to be getting it all from school then testing the boundaries here and I’m struggling to know what an appropriate consequence is.

I think you're right to remove some privileges like this. If one of my own kids came downstairs and wouldn't go up the stairs, I would take them by the hand and very confidently March them upstairs. If there was resistance there, I'd remind them about x thing that they are interested in/like and how they will have access to it when you see that they can make the right choice.

If they go up to bed, great, heard them next day. If not, take the thing away the next day and tell her why you are doing it.

This will not shame or traumatise your daughter. This will help her understand that you're in charge.

I've been working on some version of this approach for a long time and children who are faced with discipline like this, become so much more secure, more likeable, sleep better, perform better at school and are ultimately happier.

I don’t want you to feel like you’re being picked on whatever you do but I think cancelling a sleepover next week is a bad idea. It’s way too far away at 6, she’s unlikely to remember and it’s disproportionate to whatever she did that made you decide on this. It’s days away, by then you might not remember why you did it.

I’m not keen on punishments and consequences have to be proportionate and immediate, where possible.

It sounds like you haven't been gentle so much as permissive and she has got into the habit of thinking this is acceptable.

I'm not a gentle parent, so these are not gentle suggestions, but in this situation, I'd first make it very clear that this isn't OK. It's better to talk about these things when she's calm so you can have a talk with her tomorrow and say that screaming, shouting, swearing and making demands isn't OK and you won't allow it any more.

Then you set a plan for bedtime, nice bath with bubbles, stories with Mummy/Daddy and then tucking into bed maybe with calming music or lighting. If you need to stay with her for a little while so she can drift off and you're happy to do that, that's OK.

If she then starts kicking off, then she gets one warning that this is not part of the deal, and then you just leave. If she follows you into a different room, don't engage with her, just take her back to her bed and put her there. If she realises she's not getting any reaction for her behaviour, it will stop.

And being made to go to bed at the same time as a 6 year old is absolutely batshit. Don't do that.

How was it not gentle?

it was gentle because we coslept, we didn’t use time outs, we viewed behaviour as a form of communication and looked at the reasons for the (unwanted) behaviour and addressed those. Permissive parenting doesn’t work and damages children. Gentle parenting is not parenting without boundaries or parenting without consequences.

This is interesting….children behave “badly” for a reason. You need to work out why that is - kids do well when they can. There is no way a 6 year old wants a bedtime like that. Talk to her, use drawings to show your thoughts and feelings and try to find out what’s going on for her.

I’d recommend reading “when the naughty step makes things worse”

I have two girls, about the same age as your daughter. They both have quite significant additional needs (neurodivergent) and this is how we deal with things - we talk, we compromise, we problem solve together and above all we empathise.

That just sounds like average common place parenting to me

More important than whatever particular consequence you use is the following:

• Set clear expectations, so that she knows the plan

• Consequences need to happen straight away and be consistent every time, they also need to be communicated clearly eg "you did A so I'm doing B / B is happening now".

• Unwanted behaviour should never result in a change to the established plan that is favourable from the child's perspective.

I think gentleness relates to the consequences mainly. "Gentleness" mainly emphasises these being proportionate and something you can explain that relates directly to the child's behaviour. Rather than arbitrary and punitive. Alongside a general approach of being warm and available, openly exploring and naming feelings, considering why the child is having difficulty and addressing root causes to set the child up for success (behaviour is communication approach).

I’m a gentle parent and don’t have these issues, it’s not your fault, it sounds like she’s really struggling. My dd is more likely to cry eg if we tried to leave her with a babysitter but she gets really upset she feels like that. Also doesn’t like it if she can’t sleep. We’ve got a yoto player and we recorded stories on it she can listen to. I agree with pp she’s struggling with letting you go at bed time but it’s surprising that shes getting so shouty when you’ve not been like that with her. Is she angry/agitated like this at other times? Is she able to explain what she’s feeling and thinking?

I always wonder what this looks like in reality, when someone says they do not tolerate something. Would you mind helping me understand, if your child was rude or name calling you, what do you do? How would you respond or handle that?

This! Good grief, why on earth are you allowing her to shout abuse? You really have to curb this now.

For goodness sakes, yours is the first post so the only one above yours is the op's in which she clearly states she has an only child so far.

Hard boundaries and both parents working as a team, 100% united, children are so talented at finding the weak point and exploiting it!

I would walk off as soon as she starts saying horrible things, that needs stopping asap. Completely unacceptable from her and why is she saying this stuff anyway, this is awful to read about in a 6 year old. What might she be like at 14 if this isn't quashed now?

it's ok to say no, get tough and reinforce the boundaries you set such as no nastiness, reasonable bedtimes and staying in her room after lights out. She may well test you and this is where it can get a bit tough when/if you end up shouting at her and doing a big of old school telling off . But ultimately it's worth it in the long term when the new rules are established and things settle down. Short term pain for long term gain.
mine are adult now, but when they were little it was generally done by mutual agreement/respect with explanations as necessary along the way. Lots of praise when it was going well.

it does sound like you're currently pandering to her and that needs to stop as the demands get ever more unreasonable. I do think some of that behaviour is actually down to them pushing to see where the limits are. Good luck!

This child sounds like she’s crying out for boundaries. Hence the rudeness and screaming- she has no reason to do this except that she’s trying to get you to respond with a boundary, so do it for heaven’s sake. Feeling like you rule the roost for a 6yo is absolutely terrifying. She’s asking you to tell her that you are in charge and to take control of the situation. Please step up.

Yes, she is spoilt. None of my children has ever acted like this at bedtime. You should not let her dictate how she goes to sleep - you decide that, and it should have been established long time ago. Basically, you go to her bed, put on her pyjamas, read a story together, a cup of warm milk to warm up the tummy and make her sleepy and she drifts off cuddling her teddy.
The other thing is the name calling - where has she heard the curses? From you or the TV? Because she should not have been exposed to such things. The worst thing my kids have ever come up with was 'I'll flatten you like a pancake and eat you'. 🕶

No. She's just screaming abuse.

I'm in agreement with pp, you're going to have to start a new bedtime regime. It's going to be hard work, but it has to happen. Pyjamas, into bed, story, goodnight. You leave the room and close the door, with a night light if necessary.
She gets up and follows you downstairs? You take her hand and put her back upstairs to bed.
If there is any screaming and abuse you stop right there, and be clear that it has to stop.
You can do a reward chart if you want to, it's worth a try.

She can get angry at times and finds it really difficult to calm down, but outwith bedtime it’s few and far between. Yes, she just says she doesn’t want to go to bed 😫

A great post, I am finding it useful too so thank you!

OP don't panic yet, it may just be a phase as it was for my DS when he was the same age. It was overwhelming at the time, wondering what I had done wrong.

But PPs are right, it is about how you respond now that really matters.

We didn't always get it right but a year later I'm pleased to report we're through it and have our lovely boy back.

"Backlash always gets worse before it gets better when children get their first real taste of discipline after not having had much before hand." - this really resonates and was our experience - it will be tough OP but worth it in the long run.